BFRPG Editing and Templates

[sycarion]

Hey everyone, my name is John. I'm new to Basic Fantasy, but I enjoy it a great deal. I started playing the B/X rules in 1981 with the red box set. After playing a bunch of others since then, I really love BF.

I saw a thread on DF about help editing and I emailed Chris ready to help.

My goal is, with the help of everyone else, to make simple tools in OpenOffice so that adventures and supplements can be formatted in a consistent way without a bunch of 'fiddling'. in other words, help folks put great ideas in print without the headache of "is this 10 pt Soultane or 10.5 Friz-Quad?" So far, I have a rough draft template for adventures that allows you to add a room by pressing r+F3, and add a monster to the room with m+f3. The title and a placeholder map are in place so that only the text needs to be replaced.

But I would like everyone's help to make sure that there is consistency and that the tool is really easy to use.

Here is my work so far, anthology.ott

It's empty, but you can search and replace a few things to get the titles set. Then, it is r+f3 to create a room, and m+f3 to put a monster in that room. Switch out the graphic for a map, and the OGL text is already included.

There's still more to do. For one thing, there is no way to add pieces - say you only want a boxed text. For another, there no way to add the whole statblock for new monsters or magic items in an appendix. Let me know if there's anything else you want to add.

John Payne

[SmootRK]

Nice idea... pre-programmed commands. That will be handy.

Another thing we should consider is having a set of fonts to use (open source/free ones) that can be downloaded somewhere. That way we are all using the same exact versions, instead of versions that are potentially just named the same but might have some variations. I love the look of the books, but perhaps some choices need to be reconsidered if they are not free/open options.

As you write this document, or another one in this vein, consider formatting explanations directly in the document.

Something like: Title (Soultane 10pt Bold, margins, paragraph/line spacing, etc.) or something more verbose like this section should be written in Century Gothic 9.5 with .12" spacing after each paragraph. Columns should be x width with y spacing between.

Essentially writing an explanation document akin to APA or MLA formatting explanations. It might sound like a lot of work but would be a very professional resource for others to use themselves.

[sycarion]

Another thing we should consider is having a set of fonts to use (open source/free ones) that can be downloaded somewhere. That way we are all using the same exact versions, instead of versions that are potentially just named the same but might have some variations. I love the look of the books, but perhaps some choices need to be reconsidered if they are not free/open options.

Exactly. One thing we run up against with Century Gothic is folks like me that use Linux computers. I would like to find cool looking free/open fonts that could meet our needs. Yeah, I really want it to look like B/X if I can.

Some resources:

http://openfontlibrary.fontly.org/files
http://openfontlibrary.org/

As you write this document, or another one in this vein, consider formatting explanations directly in the document.

Something like: Title (Soultane 10pt Bold, margins, paragraph/line spacing, etc.) or something more verbose like this section should be written in Century Gothic 9.5 with .12" spacing after each paragraph. Columns should be x width with y spacing between.

Essentially writing an explanation document akin to APA or MLA formatting explanations. It might sound like a lot of work but would be a very professional resource for others to use themselves.

Yes, I do want to do this. That's why I want one perfect example of a monster statblock, room in a dungeon, etc. Once we settle on "this is exactly how it should work", then we can set these lists in stone. For everyone else, the pre-formatted drop-ins will take care of this fiddly detail. But those that want to know can see the thought put into our layout specs.

Thanks for the feedback. Look forward to more.

[sycarion]

Another thing we should consider is having a set of fonts to use (open source/free ones) that can be downloaded somewhere. That way we are all using the same exact versions, instead of versions that are potentially just named the same but might have some variations. I love the look of the books, but perhaps some choices need to be reconsidered if they are not free/open options.

By the way, I've been looking around today. Soutane/Souvenir/Souvienne/Benguiat Bold all say copyrighted to someone do not redistribute even though you can download them from just about anywhere. The best replacement four Soutane I could find is bangkok.ttf. It looks like Soutane, but isn't as rounded.

For Century Gothic, I found Quicksand, a bona fide open font. It will look great it print. It looks a lot like Century Gothic, plus it has a true bold.

Okay, enough font geekery, back to the fun stuff, more BF playing and testing!

[SmootRK]

I don't have much bias one way or another on specific font choices, so long as we can establish a standard that we can maintain and request others to utilize for conformity. I am sure whatever fonts are chosen will suit me fine.

[Solomoriah]

sycarion is just trying to standardize the layout. He's doing what a good editor does... sweating the small stuff. This is a good thing.

I'm in agreement that using truly free fonts is the best approach. I'll admit I was slipshod in my font selection; as it stands right now, I don't see myself redoing the core rules any time soon. However, I'm more than willing to switch to better choices for as yet unprinted works.

I'll work out a file sharing arrangement for all of us soon. I promise.

[Solomoriah]

Okay, more planning.

Here's where I think we need to be headed. First, regarding the Almanack. Henceforth (that is, whenever we release a new version), I think we'll just call it The Olde Dungeoneer's Almanack, dropping the years. As we discussed in the Monster Supplement 2 thread on DF, I'd like to remove the monsters from the Almanack and add them to that supplement (more about this below). I think we should go ahead and add the Druid to the Almanack, and evaluate the Illusionist for inclusion as well. This would round out the old-school classes in the Almanack. I'd be willing to consider the Death Master as well, though I still don't care for the name. Last, I have a set of supplementary thief rules I need to get into writing so they can be included... they are similar to the adjustments given in 1E for race and for armor worn.

Regarding the composite monster supplement: I think I'd like to name it The Olde Dungeoneer's Guidebook of Fantastickal Creatures (or just the Guidebook for short). I'll provide an introductory section similar to the introduction in the Almanack.

Both of these works would qualify as things I'd like to see in actual print format this year, or early next year.

The Adventure Anthology mini-modules are slated to be incorporated into a single "mega-module" titled AA1 Adventure Anthology One, which will also be a print work. While I'd like to see the individual AA1.x submodules cleaned up relatively soon, I don't want to start planning a print release just yet. It'd be premature to do that.

BF1 Morgansfort: The Western Lands Campaign is darn near ready to release. Honestly, it lacks a cover, and I do have an interior art piece by Nathan Nada to insert. I need to ask Wulfgarn one more time if he plans to get that cover done.

Kevin, you've been saying we need to do more evangelizing. I'd be interested in reading more details about how this could be done. As I told you previously, I do have agreement from the principal contributors of BFRPG to charge a small premium (a buck or so a copy) to pay for costs associated with the project; however, I don't want to do that until we have at least one more work in print. Don't ask me why... it just feels right. The "Supporter's Edition" will be exactly like the regular priced edition, but with a cover banner that identifies it as a "Supporter's Edition" copy. Basically, this lets the buyer show off his or her actual support of the project. This money could be used to pay for giveaways for promotional purposes, as you suggested.

Probably should start a separate thread for promotional issues.

About the Basic Fantasy Project: I consider any text contributor, and any editor/proofer, to be a "member" of the Project, but you two have a special place reserved for you. The sort of place reserved for anyone willing to work for it. That is not to say that others won't earn the same sort of place in the Project (indeed, there are those who I would award special status to right now, if they only asked). I'll be working out file sharing (as mentioned previously) and possibly setting up remote access to the actual downloads (still considering whether I actually need this). Also, if you want, I can provide email aliases connecting you@basicfantasy.org to your regular mailbox, or even give you a separate webmail of that form, if you want.

No, I don't have my whip out, and nobody is beating a drum (really). We do NOT work on a schedule here. If you have the time and interest, and want to work on anything posted on basicfantasy.org or even materials from the Workshop on Dragonsfoot, feel free. If you don't have time, that's fine. Just please, keep me posted on what you are working on. Do NOT feel like, having said you are working on something, that you can't set it aside... just pass back to me whatever you have done so far, and let me know that you have to drop it for a while. This is a hobby, not a job, and I'm not paying you to do it. If you don't feel the love for the project, you're not obligated to work on it.

DO let me know what you are working on. Post it in public here, so we don't have duplicated effort (especially if I add additional editors). Probably we need a thread for the purpose.

That's all I have on my mind right now. Let me know what you are both thinking.

[sycarion]

sycarion is just trying to standardize the layout. He's doing what a good editor does... sweating the small stuff. This is a good thing.

Thanks, I appreciate that. If only my old editor at the newspaper could see what you wrote, he'd have an aneurysm. I used to be *not so good* at the small stuff. Now I have toddlers, go figure.

I'm in agreement that using truly free fonts is the best approach. I'll admit I was slipshod in my font selection; as it stands right now, I don't see myself redoing the core rules any time soon. However, I'm more than willing to switch to better choices for as yet unprinted works.

Good news about Quicksand is that there is no commercial restriction. The creator said as much when asked. I do want to link to his site, though. This is a really good font. It will be fantastic in print. Download it here: http://www.andrewpaglinawan.com/QuicksandFamily.zip

The Bangkok font is not nearly as professional. I'm curious what it will look like in print. :S

You know, I wasn't too big on fonts and stuff like that years ago - I just wanted it to look right. Recently, though, it seems that fonts are a big deal, especially if you're going to print something on Lulu. Nothing worse that Adobe or some small font house demanding money for using a free font because they mentioned somewhere two years ago that they'd like a donation if used commercially.

I'll work out a file sharing arrangement for all of us soon. I promise.

No problem. I can host stuff if need be. Happy to help.

[sycarion]

Here's where I think we need to be headed. First, regarding the Almanack. Henceforth (that is, whenever we release a new version), I think we'll just call it The Olde Dungeoneer's Almanack, dropping the years. As we discussed in the Monster Supplement 2 thread on DF, I'd like to remove the monsters from the Almanack and add them to that supplement (more about this below). I think we should go ahead and add the Druid to the Almanack, and evaluate the Illusionist for inclusion as well. This would round out the old-school classes in the Almanack. I'd be willing to consider the Death Master as well, though I still don't care for the name. Last, I have a set of supplementary thief rules I need to get into writing so they can be included... they are similar to the adjustments given in 1E for race and for armor worn.

Dropping the years is a great idea. I also agree that separating the monsters into a new supplement is needed. Maybe it's just me, but I'm used to a book of just monsters. I like the Illusionist, I liked having them around just to mess with the player's head and keep them from over-relying on the thief to detect stuff and a 10 foot pole for everything else.

Regarding the composite monster supplement: I think I'd like to name it The Olde Dungeoneer's Guidebook of Fantastickal Creatures (or just the Guidebook for short). I'll provide an introductory section similar to the introduction in the Almanack.

Both of these works would qualify as things I'd like to see in actual print format this year, or early next year.

Sounds good to me, no reason we can't get in print. I hope to make that job much easier - folks hit m+f3 and type in the details.

The Adventure Anthology mini-modules are slated to be incorporated into a single "mega-module" titled AA1 Adventure Anthology One, which will also be a print work. While I'd like to see the individual AA1.x submodules cleaned up relatively soon, I don't want to start planning a print release just yet. It'd be premature to do that.

I'm going to focus on that next. AA 1.8 - Eihort should be done soon, then I'll look at the rest.

BF1 Morgansfort: The Western Lands Campaign is darn near ready to release. Honestly, it lacks a cover, and I do have an interior art piece by Nathan Nada to insert. I need to ask Wulfgarn one more time if he plans to get that cover done.

Cool!

Kevin, you've been saying we need to do more evangelizing. I'd be interested in reading more details about how this could be done. As I told you previously, I do have agreement from the principal contributors of BFRPG to charge a small premium (a buck or so a copy) to pay for costs associated with the project; however, I don't want to do that until we have at least one more work in print. Don't ask me why... it just feels right. The "Supporter's Edition" will be exactly like the regular priced edition, but with a cover banner that identifies it as a "Supporter's Edition" copy. Basically, this lets the buyer show off his or her actual support of the project. This money could be used to pay for giveaways for promotional purposes, as you suggested.

Probably should start a separate thread for promotional issues.

Twitter is a good tool. A blog is also a good one. Stuff and dragonsfoot reaches the core audience more than anything. Getting late. More to say, but no time to do so. Be back tomorrow pm.

New thread would be good. More to say, but it's late.

[SmootRK]

I am in general agreement with basically everything.

When the summer's activities start to calm back down, I will be jumping to the monster supplement with both feet. I would like to get the basic text cleaned up for what I have already in, then start adding the stuff from the first/almanac. I would not expect any sort of real print version of the monsters for a while though, because once I have a decent quantity of critters collected, I would like to work on indexes and encounter tables that bring everything together full circle with the core book material.

As for Grave Master naming, I defer to consensus on it. Although I do/did want to pay homage to the original Death Master (as seen in Dragon Magazine #73 i think), I am not dead set on the name (dead set - get it ). Personally I would prefer to not use Necromancer - as it is so over-used. Grave Master gets abbreviated as GM = confusing, as does Death Master as DM = also confusing... so I am open to suggestions. Bokor sounds cool to me (and is something I intend to use anyhow). It is not a common name for stuff, but it has cultural implications which may not be kool for everyone. If the Isle of XXX sort of modules is continued, I think it would be neat idea to drop into that. Don't think that I need or should be a deciding factor on names - I can always call it what I want in my own personal games.

Evangelizing agreed needs a new thread. When I have some concrete ideas to pursue I will start one unless someone else starts one first.

cheers