JN1 The Chaotic Caves

[Solomoriah]

Uploaded.

I've made more layout revisions, so if you do make changes, please start from my copy.

I'll make several layout passes before it's print-ready. Do you plan to do any more artwork for this? I've tried to email you several times but it keeps getting kicked back.

This release does not include death_jester's maps, but I'll get them in there before it's final.

[jdn2006]

I plan on leaving it as-is, barring corrections. I'd like to try to do some art but don't have the time. I'll let you know if I do.

One-word fixes like:


20. GUARD ROOM: The hobgoblins posted here
also help guard against the creatures who reside in
the western area -- who have defied being
exterminated. The corridor south <-- s/b "west"


H. LIZARD MAN LAIR
The lizard man lair is located in a swampy area
formed where a stream that slows down, spreads <-- "that" is not needed


38 DUNGEON

Call "a" has three merchants. = "cell"

85. MAIN HALL:

one will excusing himself and go to <-- "excuse"
room #88 to

[Solomoriah]

I've corrected those things for R11. I just realized that R10 went out saying "Release 9" on the title page. Will be correct in R11 also.

[jdn2006]

I've corrected those things for R11. I just realized that R10 went out saying "Release 9" on the title page. Will be correct in R11 also.

Thanks.

[Sir Bedivere]

The module looks great. Here are a few things I noticed as I was going through it. (Mostly grammar / punctuation, so be warned.)

EDIT: I got to thinking about colons and semi-colons and adjusted my comments below.

p.1

For thousands of years this region was unused territory, with --> Don't need the comma.

Recently monsters have become more numerous. --> Recently, ... [Do need a comma here, though.]

Question: The notice says,

Treasure recovery and monster exterminators needed. All goods recovered by lawful means from monsters become the property of the carrier. Only exceptional claims by third parties will be honored and then only with just compensation for services performed.

What does exceptional claims by third parties mean? And where's the town lawyer's office?

p. 2

2. Most of the monsters being encountered are orcs, goblins, gnolls and other lower-level creatures. No giants and dragons and bigger brutes as of yet. --> No giants or dragons or bigger brutes ...

11. There is a metal eating monster --> metal-eating

Notes: Rules can differ subtly: [I think this would read better as a semi-colon, but either works.] if you are using this with a different rules set, ...

Class followed by level for NPCs: C = cleric, F = fighter, M = magic-user, T = thief --> You might include an example w/ level, e.g., C3 = Cleric, level 3.

Did you want an extra blank line between the Ability Abbreviations and the coinage abbreviations?

p. 6

In the Town Key, second paragraph:

An irregular wooden stockade fifteen feet high surrounds most of the town, thrown up haphazard as it expanded. --> haphazardly

4th para:

A cobble-stone paved highway --> cobblestone

2. Chicken Ranchers ... fenced in area --> fenced-in

p. 7

10. Banker ... It is empty expect for a bunch of giant centipedes kept in bags. --> empty except for

12a Tax Collector ... who keep up with the local trade, land taxes and such --> local trade and land taxes and such

(same para) When collecting taxes or carrying significant funds, they enlist four or so of the towns [--> town's] garrison (from #38), [no comma] and travel in a coach, ...

p. 8

13. Widow woman ... This home belongs to a widowed woman and an older spinster woman who helps with upkeep in return for room and board (neither lady will fight). They sometimes take in travelers as a bed-and-breakfast, and run a school and small library from their house. They make money from everyday work like sewing and from selling produce from their large garden growing out back. [It seems like they'd make money w/ the BnB, school, and library, so I would throw in an 'also' after 'They' --> They also make money ...]

17. EDIT: This colon is fine. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

18a. ... The woman who owns this shop has moved here recently with her husband and ex-husband. [No correction. This just struck me as an interesting bit of color.]

18b. The Tavern ... Wines and similar liquors have to be imported [I always think of liquors as distilled spirits, like whiskey, so I would put 'Wines and liquors' but maybe that's just me.] The proprietor hires a old --> an old

That's as far as I've made it so far. I'll try to get through the rest by the weekend.

[Sir Bedivere]

Made it through a few more pages.

Town Key

24b ... They make soap, butter, cheese, etc., purchasing milk and vegetable oils from other people as needed. A deep, cold cellar out back stores many of their raw materials and final product [should be products as they make several]

24d. OLD COOT'S IN LAWS [should be IN-LAWS]

27 ... Most are noncombatants. [Everywhere else you detail anyone who might be a combatant, so it seems odd that in this one place you don't.]

31 ... This concern can also sells [--> sell] saws,

32. GARRISON COMMANDER RESIDENCES [--> RESIDENCE] AND OFFICES:

34 ... They both have wives; the home is also shared by a [--> the] mother of one wife and an aunt of the other.

38 ... Bunks are plentiful, as well as a few tables and chairs --> Bunks are plentiful, and there are a few tables and chairs as well.

... The garrison of 18 spear men [--> spearmen - yeah, the automatic spell check doesn't like it, but look it up]

That finishes the town. I'll start on the wilderness areas next.

[Solomoriah]

Just so you know, I won't make changes here without J.D.'s approval. However, I'll say that I don't agree fully with your comma specifications. I've had a host of English majors tell me that commas aren't supposed to indicate pauses, but in the real world they do.

I do a lot of things that make English majors weep.

[Sir Bedivere]

Just so you know, I won't make changes here without J.D.'s approval.

Ah, in that case, I'll stop unless J.D. is OK w/ me continuing.

J.D., what do you say?

However, I'll say that I don't agree fully with your comma specifications. I've had a host of English majors tell me that commas aren't supposed to indicate pauses, but in the real world they do.

Well, first off, you and J.D. are the editors; I'm just proofreading. There are reasons to break just about every language rule, including spelling, so if you don't agree, of course you should ignore it.

That said, when writing dialog it makes perfect sense to punctuate as the character would say the line. But, outside of that, what does it mean to indicate a pause with a comma? What's the reader supposed to do, stop reading for a moment? Is the reader supposed to imagine your voice in their head and, when coming to a comma, imagine the voice pausing? I don't get what you want the reader to understand by using commas that way.

I do a lot of things that make English majors weep.

Luckily, I'm not an English major (though I have to confess, my current job is teaching English grammar ... I know, I know, I'm doomed to some layer of hell in Dante's Inferno).

Again, you guys are the editors. I make suggestions, you have to make the call -- which is why you get paid the big bucks.

[Solomoriah]

Just so you know, I won't make changes here without J.D.'s approval.

Ah, in that case, I'll stop unless J.D. is OK w/ me continuing.

J.D., what do you say?

I didn't mean for you to stop. I just was saying, I'd like J.D.'s approval of your changes before I apply them.

However, I'll say that I don't agree fully with your comma specifications. I've had a host of English majors tell me that commas aren't supposed to indicate pauses, but in the real world they do.

Well, first off, you and J.D. are the editors; I'm just proofreading. There are reasons to break just about every language rule, including spelling, so if you don't agree, of course you should ignore it.

That said, when writing dialog it makes perfect sense to punctuate as the character would say the line. But, outside of that, what does it mean to indicate a pause with a comma? What's the reader supposed to do, stop reading for a moment? Is the reader supposed to imagine your voice in their head and, when coming to a comma, imagine the voice pausing? I don't get what you want the reader to understand by using commas that way.

Huh. So you don't hear a voice in your head as you are reading?

I do a lot of things that make English majors weep.

Luckily, I'm not an English major (though I have to confess, my current job is teaching English grammar ... I know, I know, I'm doomed to some layer of hell in Dante's Inferno).

Again, you guys are the editors. I make suggestions, you have to make the call -- which is why you get paid the big bucks.

No problem. I appreciate all your work on this, and I'm sure J.D. does also.

[Sir Bedivere]

I didn't mean for you to stop. I just was saying, I'd like J.D.'s approval of your changes before I apply them.

Oh, no problem, then. I'll keep going.

However, I'll say that I don't agree fully with your comma specifications. I've had a host of English majors tell me that commas aren't supposed to indicate pauses, but in the real world they do.

Well, first off, you and J.D. are the editors; I'm just proofreading. There are reasons to break just about every language rule, including spelling, so if you don't agree, of course you should ignore it.

That said, when writing dialog it makes perfect sense to punctuate as the character would say the line. But, outside of that, what does it mean to indicate a pause with a comma? What's the reader supposed to do, stop reading for a moment? Is the reader supposed to imagine your voice in their head and, when coming to a comma, imagine the voice pausing? I don't get what you want the reader to understand by using commas that way.

Huh. So you don't hear a voice in your head as you are reading?

I do, but I hear mine, with my own rhythms and emphasis. Throwing in a comma to indicate a pause may sound right to you, and it may even sound wrong to you if there were no pause there. But if it's not the way I would naturally read the sentence, it throws me (your reader) off. I don't want to make any more of this than it deserves (way too late to worry about that, I suspect), but if it didn't throw me off as I read the sentence I probably wouldn't have mentioned it.

Anyway, again, what does the reader get from a comma used to indicate where the writer would pause? The other uses of commas tell the reader something meaningful (e.g., this is an item in a list, an introductory phrase, or etc.), but that one doesn't seem to have any meaning for the reader.

I'm talking about an adventure module, of course. If this were a poem you were going to read publicly, the sound and rhythm would be much more important and could well call for all kinds of unusual punctuation. I just don't see anyone getting up in front of an audience and doing a dramatic reading of The Chaotic Caves. Not saying it wouldn't happen at a convention, maybe after a gamer failed a save vs. potions of intoxication, but that doesn't seem like your intended use for this work.