Hill Giant Hall

[jdn2006]

Updated the main zip file in the first post of the thread with a rough of the fire giant forge.

[MedievalMan]

I like what you did with the dark elves an the alternating levels. That is pretty clever. Looking forward to when this is completed.

[SmootRK]

These are ideas for people looking for options, not a statement of what I think should be "rules". People can keep their gaming simple or make it as complex as they wish.

Just some random ideas that might be included into an appendix of sorts to give some extra perks to such higher level characters that might go through the modules. I agree with any such considerations being explicitly declared "optional and the GM has total authority on whether such options appear in his game."

[jdn2006]

Pretty much done, although it needs polish and ideas.

(See the first post of the thread.)

[SmootRK]

I have not had a chance to review every page closely, but I enjoy the idea of adventure immensely. In the Fire Giant Forge, the players will meet Dark Elves, which I am OK with. Of course this module is homage to originals, but given that it covers those modules, and the fact that WotC "claims" such elves as their IP, perhaps we might utilize another 'race' in place of them? Just to avoid even the possibility of any issues with them (WotC). (and yes, I know you have made some tweaks here and there to differentiate them some... however, they are clearly directly modeled after Drow - anyone can see).

I once ran Against the Giants pretty much "as is" but exchanged Drow for Githyanki. Ultimately the characters headed down and found a Gith Outpost City. I never got farther than that but would have inserted an Astral Adventure (probably using the old Fedifensor adventure from old Dragon magazine). It all worked really well.

Anyhow, my point is that the ideas can still be accomplished with alternate and less controversial means (at least in the IP sense). Of course, my idea above is also a 'declared IP' of WotC, so it would not work either, but still shows as an example that it is easy to accommodate, especially at this early point of the adventure arc (just a few appearances of such as race appear at this point - harder to change later).
I would understand completely any resistance to such as change, but I am throwing the idea out there.

Some idea that may be usable (using less declared IP concepts):
- Gray Dwarf (analogous to Duergar)
- Kuo-Toan (or more properly a cthulhu fish man race that does not cross IP lines) This is also a no brainer for one of your follow up adventures I see coming down the pipe.
- a redesigned 'Norker' or Hobgoblin race, adapted for underground being quite similar to Drow otherwise, perhaps give them more Asian Styled weaponry (like the original Monster Manual pic of Hobgoblins), and make them quite more refined.
- a Sleestack sort of lizard man/troglodyte race... the dominant world race before the ascension of the newer races.
- Anubians (from Field Guide) complete with a underground Egyptian stylized culture, all the typical Drow ideas can be incorporated into this race with weapons, armor, etc. just Egyptian styled.
- Vermen (rat men from Field Guide) but perhaps a more civilized society of them (almost like a rats of Nihm set of these guys).

Anyhow, just ideas to think on at this stage. One thing I noticed in the Dark Elf (new monsters section) is that infravision is mentioned, while BFRPG uses 'Darkvision'
Also, in the Druid Supplement, there is a BFRPG Spell for Faerie Fire that can be referenced (instead of the 'variation on light spell' information. Dancing Lights is also available from Illusionist Supplement. Otherwise, these spells will be available in a new Supplement soon that greatly expands the number of available spells in a campaign.

[Joe the Rat]

When in doubt, go back to formula. By which I mean Norse roots.

Svartalfar. Which are fairly dwarflike in practice. WotC might be able to claim Drow, but Dark Elf goes back a lot further.

[SmootRK]

When in doubt, go back to formula. By which I mean Norse roots.

Svartalfar. Which are fairly dwarflike in practice. WotC might be able to claim Drow, but Dark Elf goes back a lot further.

Yes. Technically correct, but we can all see not only similarity, but direct 'near copy' of the source material in both the adventure idea, general setting, and particulars of the kind of creatures that are being encountered (of which some are declared Intellectual Property, namely the Drow).

I love these homage modules, but I also understand lawyer types and eagerness to enforce their will. If I were writing, I would hate to do loads of work, and even if in the right, have to deal with legal threats, legal defense and/or associated expenses, and then in the end... rewriting stuff to get them off my back because they have bottomless wallets and I don't.

chances are we would be fine as is, and nobody will even care... but there is the potential for such strife to deal with.
Homage is fine, even near duplication of the general idea is good with the Open Gaming Materials, but I worry for the crossing the line stuff.

[Steveman]

WotC's claim over Drow does not have any hold over the name or the idea of black elves. The IP claim over drow is specifically over obsidian skinned elves who are either represented as a spider worshiping matriarchy or as scorpion worshiping savages. Pathfinder has dark blue skinned drow as a magic and nobility-worshiping worshipping evil matriarchy.

That said, with no intended insult to Gary, I dislike drow as dark elves in general. The smack to hard of "hehehe we're the evil race."

[MedievalMan]

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Agreed. I dislike "evil" races in general. Savage races? Ok. Races that are created and evil? Also ok. Races that are just evil? Eh.

[Dimirag]

Record of Lodoss War depicts Dark Elves as tanned-skin elves with gray, black or white hair...
The idea of "evil race" (I suppose there are "good races") its extremely linked to Alignment.
I prefer "corrupted" races or a similar approach to antagonist races sub-division
Elves: Forest <--> Swamp
Dwarves: Gold/Silver/Bronze/Coal/Magma/Mountain/Cave/Volcano/etc...