Advice For Converting Newbies?

[Guffaw]

Hey all,
This weekend, (as long as things don't change,) I'll be running BFRPG for a group of people that just recently got in to tabletop RPGs. Though, as a group they have mixed levels of experience, it wouldn't be wrong to say that the bulk of their experience is with 5th edition D&D. I've told them that I personally prefer more oldschool games, and that my game of choice is BFRPG, so they have kind of been informed on what's coming their way if I run the game. I am an experienced GM, with twenty years of experience under my belt, running games for a bunch of different groups.
I have an issue though. In the past, I've played BFRPG with a few different groups of friends and out of those groups it only really stuck with one in particular. In recent years I've made two attempts to start a BFRPG campaign and both times I got the same response: Players seemed to have a good time, and seemed to enjoy themselves, they even got excited about what their characters were going to do next time! But when the next session started to roll around, I was met with requests to play something else. I tried to explain some of the finer points regarding the tonal fidelity of OSR games, and focused my adventure around showcasing what made OSR and BFRPG more appealing, yet they wanted to go back to games like Pathfinder and 5th Edition.
Now, this hasn't happened with this group yet. They're still learning the ins and outs of tabletop RPGs in general, yet I have to wonder. Is there anything that I can do to improve the chances of them playing tomorrow and saying to themselves, "Ah, this is the game that I want to play"?

[Artanisace]

In my experience, if they're brand new to the hobby, they have more chances of staying with BFRPG. They will see it's fun and simple. But 5e players is a different story; they tend to drop much easily. They're used to having a ton of spells/abilities, and to think on every action as in a videogame where you have buttons and you just solve things by pressing them. They get bored at combats because they think their only action is 'attack' and they miss all those fancy spells which kill everything, and they get lost when they don't have skills to rely on to act outside of combat.

I understood all this when I got 2 players that they were bored as hell in my game, and ended up dropping (I felt pretty horrible tbh). Then I played 5e with them, all of us as players... we were in a dungeon and there was a puzzle to open a door. Their automatic response was 'I roll Intelligence to solve it'. I was like... wtf? Nothing to do here; their approach to RPGs is completely different. Is their loss

What can I advise you... try to make the game as fun as possible, and engage them. Add puzzles, traps, tension, monsters that have several ways of dealing with them, cool role-playing scenes, fantastic and sometimes dangerous magic items... and it should be alright Good luck!

[Guffaw]

What can I advise you... try to make the game as fun as possible, and engage them. Add puzzles, traps, tension, monsters that have several ways of dealing with them, cool role-playing scenes, fantastic and sometimes dangerous magic items... and it should be alright Good luck!

Hey man, I appreciate it. The worst that can happen is that they're just not interested and then I go back to playing online sessions. But it goes without saying, that I've had very similar experiences with the 5e crowd. The things is, I don't even dislike 5e that much! There just seems to be some quality about it that instills bad habits in newcomers to the hobby.

As for the adventure I have set up, it's a conversion of DCC's "Portal Under the Stars" that I made a couple months back. I've tweaked the lethality of it and added some puzzles and riddles, and added a bit of terrain obstacles to the combat encounters to make them slightly more engaging. Upon success, I've placed the entrance of the dungeon within the Morgansfort Module, so if they survive and enjoyed it, then I can just pick up next session at the beginning of Morgansfort.

[Rookie555]

Hmm, as much as that im neutral as to what games ya players enjoy. I'd say let the newbies enjoy BFRPG as like their starter to the hobby. Due to it being simple, modern yet old school and being accessable to them whenever they wanna expand. Im much more of a newbie who isn't a robot that wants to bog down any fun for the game and just think more for imagination (i forget rules lol). Though the obivious rule is let them have fun for the game and ask them if there is more they'd like to experience out of OSR/BFRPG in general. Expanding upon what the basics would be.

[CptClyde]

BFRPG and D&D5e lend themselves to different play styles I find. So it helps to know what BFRPG's strengths are to leverage when enticing new comers. But if they are not into the style of play where BFRPG's strengths lie, then we need only wait for them to inevitably tire of "the 5e way" and come join us!

D&D5e play style tends to be very character based and very story based often with expected PC background from the start(probably due to the influence of Critical Role). It's all about spending some time making a cool unique PC with personality. There are quite a few character options/paths lending itself to (an illusion) of PC uniqness. Players get attached to their "special snowflake" characters and generally expect plot armour so they can play out their dreams of epic bad-ass-ery as they consume level after level worth of "milestone XP" rewards so they can add more "moves" to their character sheet while GMs struggle to churn out mind bending plot twists, world threatening antagonists all while weaving and foreshading plot threads week after week.

Conversely, BFRPG offers a simple and fast character build process, very little character uniquemess (on paper at least), and great random tables for wandering monsters and treasure. Out of the gate PCs are weaker, have fewer abilities and can take longer to level up. However it is easier to run a long term campaign due to less power creep.
It is indeed bound to be a boring game for people looking to really dig into their character's abilities when there really are none. But BFRPG excels at deadliness (and the excitement it brings), and makes it quick and easy to whip up another PC or "take over" a hireling and continue on. The fun to be had here is seeing what crazy situations you can get your little pretend men into and still get out alive. It's a totally different (and fun) way to play. The simple (yet deadly) nature of BFRPG lends itself to "troupe" style play well too, so give those players who are looking for more "character abilities" a troupe of PCs to run. They are used to tracking many abilities and options at once so let them. That way when one of their PCs dies they'll feel less hurt/offended by it and be able to experience character death in a fun way, allowing it to shape the story and characters involved.

For us, BFRPG was a light hearted "side game" we started. And fortunately we didn't start playing it the same way as we do our heavy-story/character driven games. We wanted to just roll up some losers and march them off basically to their deaths. We cleared lairs, dungeons, swore revenge on orcs, plotted and schemed, tricked goblins, killed a dragon and lost many characters along the way. And funny enough the survivors really started to take on personalities. They had been through so much, and we found we had so many great memories and inside jokes being created (with little effort on the GMs part) that the rich story that came from that game ended up being more interesting and more organic/real than our character-driven-story-based games. So lean into this stuff maybe. Kill some characters, have some fun, treat it more like a game than a drama series and maybe they'll see BFRPG as an alternative way to play, not a competing set of rules.

I've placed the entrance of the dungeon within the Morgansfort Module, so if they survive and enjoyed it, then I can just pick up next session at the beginning of Morgansfort.

This sounds cool, nice.

[GrimlinJoe]

Being a player who has playing D&D off and on over the past 15 years I am so glad that I found basic fantasy. D&D never really clicked with me. Too much stuff being crammed into a game and it always felt bogged down. Basic fantasy is such a relief to play due to its simplicity. I've just got into Dming so to have a system that is so malleable is again a relief. Being able to use the tools provided to help tell an engaging story without worrying about too many rules is what has kept me a fan of this game. Sorry to hear you haven't had the best of luck with your previous players.

[Snarkythekobold]

In my experience, if they're brand new to the hobby, they have more chances of staying with BFRPG. They will see it's fun and simple. But 5e players is a different story; they tend to drop much easily. They're used to having a ton of spells/abilities, and to think on every action as in a videogame where you have buttons and you just solve things by pressing them. They get bored at combats because they think their only action is 'attack' and they miss all those fancy spells which kill everything, and they get lost when they don't have skills to rely on to act outside of combat.

I understood all this when I got 2 players that they were bored as hell in my game, and ended up dropping (I felt pretty horrible tbh). Then I played 5e with them, all of us as players... we were in a dungeon and there was a puzzle to open a door. Their automatic response was 'I roll Intelligence to solve it'. I was like... wtf? Nothing to do here; their approach to RPGs is completely different. Is their loss

What can I advise you... try to make the game as fun as possible, and engage them. Add puzzles, traps, tension, monsters that have several ways of dealing with them, cool role-playing scenes, fantastic and sometimes dangerous magic items... and it should be alright Good luck!

Wow. This is dead on.

My kids started with BF and an old school mentality and that's what they love to play. My oldest was called on to run a Starfinder module for his friends and he got sick of the way that these modern type games run. He just chucked the rules and started running it the old school way. Did some of his players not like it? Yeah. They wanted to be invincible super-heroes who did not use any sort of critical thinking. Some like that kind of game. I think it sucks and would not waste my time with it. It's basically just playing make believe without any challenge. Not for me

My advice would be to focus on making the game as fun as all get out and do not mention the ruleset at all. Don't mention anything about "old school" play and don't instigate them in any way. A lot of modern players get turned off when the GM challenges them verbally.

Just make the game fun and try to give them the adventures that they are looking to have. I messed up in these aspects at one time and my players did not want to come back. I told them that if they kept playing crazy and stupid that they would get a TPK. And so, they just quit. They have come back recently and I've just been playing fast and loose and they're loving it.

I don't think it's so much about the ruleset as it is just about having fun.

[toddlyons]

"A Quick Primer for Old School Gaming" by Matthew Finch (free e-book) does a good job of explaining the same phenomenon. The creativity required in OSR: having to actually explain the approach you're attempting, the thing you're looking for -- the what, where and how -- it's on a completely different level than what passes for current TTRPG.

It's one of the reasons I haven't been able to get into 5e, despite the number of games available to join. I like the "holes" in old school play where a lot was possible based on player instinct and the DM's ability to determine a probability on-the-fly.

[Seven]

Sometimes it's helpful to discuss with each player what their expectations are.
It's usually possible to accommodate everyone while creating some synergy.
Or to shift those expectations.
Does each player have a character he likes to play?
Does everyone get along?
Is the adventure interesting?

[Guffaw]

Well, thank you everyone for your advice and discussion. Turns out, my players all flaked on me. This is the second time they've done this, and the third group in the past few years too.
I really wish I could find or create a group in my area that was interested, but people either don't have any I terest in the sort of game I want to run and play, or I don't mesh well with the players. I could play online, but that really doesn't feel the same. I want a physical, tangible group, but I understand that it's apparently too much to ask for these days.
I'd like to be able to write this post out in such a way that it doesn't make me seem bitter or like I'm trying to throw myself a pity party, but how many years do I have to legitimately try to gather people together for this game before I throw in the towel?