Followers?

[Solomoriah]

You shouldn't. While borrowing from OGL sources is AOK, not so for games that aren't under an open license.

[SmootRK]

You shouldn't. While borrowing from OGL sources is AOK, not so for games that aren't under an open license.

I take the occasional peek at other books for ideas and inspiration, but I know copying is taboo.

[JoeCarr28]

You shouldn't. While borrowing from OGL sources is AOK, not so for games that aren't under an open license.

Shouldn't what? Take a look? That's all I suggested! No plagiarism implied or suggested.

[Joe the Rat]

Rangers got all the love in 2E. "To me, my bears!"
... good times.

Organizing some of the points:
Level: Based on the 'standard' models, are followers only to be gained after a specific level? If you had the resources to build your keep/temple/tower early, would nobody show? As you gain levels, would you be able to draw larger numbers of followers? Is there a limit?

Buildings: Are followers dependent upon building a keep/temple/festhall/etc., or do you start attracting a standing army without? Or does this depend on the class? Fighting types could pick up a squire-type (assuming one hasn't already been adopted via Henchmen), and the more itinerant class variants (Rangers, Paladins) could have their animal and/or trainee followers without having a stronghold. Maybe it's less about a structure and more about having a home area. Said Paladin "resides" at a specific temple. A Ranger declares a certain valley his "home" area, even though he's got nothing more than a simple shack. You also have special cases, such as a Magic-User joining the faculty of a "Wizard College" - though here tower construction costs are deferred in favor of more research material, and a greater expectation for working with others. This kind of variation may be noted as a possibility, not a standard approach.

Numbers and Types: How many - of what, what types, what levels or ability? Clerics are the only ones I've seen explicitly written as having out-of-class followers, but it is certainly a possibility for others. There may be a limit (only x per y of "others"). And is this something that would automatically increase (noted above)? Who shows up to serve, and why? Some are there to learn from the master, or follow their cause, or are drawn by their charisma and legend, or have been ordered there by another. Random tables of "what shows up" are handy, but some comment on variation and selectivity is ideal. Thieves are the main go-to here for examples: The variety of concepts behind a thief gives way to a variety of followers. The spymaster, archaeologist-adventurer, bandit king, Crime Kingpin, and Fagan-wannabe will draw different types of followers - though there will be overlaps. There may be a trade-off cost for getting off-type followers.

Lieutenants and Chancellors: Large numbers require some manner of organization or chain of command (loose though it may be at times). beyond the one leader per x grunts, is there an upper limit on trusted sub-leaders? Using the Charisma-based factor, can one only field a number of leaders equal to their Henchlimit? Does your leadership allotment come in addition to your Henchpool?

Muster: This is most appropriate to fighters, but another idea is that of a core group of followers, and the ability to summon up additional help with a bit of notice. I am thinking about this as an intermediary between followers and hirelings - they still need paid, but they are loyal to more than the coin and contract. Drumming up retired soldiers, elder sons, calling on support from allies, that sort of thing. A Thief might have a web of contacts stretching beyond his guild of "security specialists." A Cleric in need could call upon his order for additional support - how much very much depending on the position (level) if the caller. Just a thought, really.

[SmootRK]

I don't relish going down the road of the modern games too often, but the OGL D20 mechanism for followers is actually rather nicely put together: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#leadership

Thoughts on this:
- remove the whole idea that it is a Feat, and instead contingent on some sort of 'base or stronghold' and that of being of the appropriate level. Likewise, remove the 'leadership score' for just level instead, but give something for Charisma or other factors (such as stronghold size/quality, etc).
- of course the columns of the table can be modified (for one, needing a zero-level column of sorts).
- tables following could incorporate the randomness of followers that older editions utilized, used to determine basic types attracted and how many typically show (a lone pike-man is oddity, attracted in blocks of 10).
- some rule for mounted troops, as they are substantially better.... at very least the character must pay all mount costs up front, else those types of followers would not bother to show up.

[Metroknight]

I was thinking that followers were just a small group that followed the pc with loyalty to them not an army with captains and such maybe I'm picturing it wrong. I can't see a Ranger having an army of hundreds or thousands of animals maybe a few or a dozen. It would be scary if a Fighter could claim an ever growing army as his followers.

Should we define first what followers are and how they relate to the pc before we start building tables and numbers?

Are followers the same as cohorts, companions, henchmen, etc....?

[JoeCarr28]

I think we're talking about the associates that higher level characters attract when they build their stronghold (as per the BFRPG rulebook, page 149). The rulebook provides some guidance on numbers. I guess Smoot's just looking to flesh-out the details a little more.

Rangers got all the love in 2E. "To me, my bears!"

Hehe .. the Ranger list is something special isn't it? You can keep your bears- I'm talking a hippogriff, a weretiger and a treant .

[Joe the Rat]

Cohorts sound closest to being Henchmen - at least the closest thing in the SRD. So we can pretty much ignore that stuff for this purpose.

I'm very much inclined to set a level requirement. I like 9 - the classic "stronghold" level. As presented in the BF core, it is very much a chicken-and-egg affair: you get a certain number of followers (likely to be in the single digits), but need a certain amount of square footage depending on the number of followers.

Followers are presented as being of same class, and first level.

So the ideas from there (rehashing what Smoot just said):

Volume: (and highest level of class/ HD of beasties) based on level. This is based on level= power = fame, and as your character grows in fame, more are drawn in. Maybe we adapt a head-count from this - a maximum number of followers for a level.

Charisma modifies - the table went down to 6(?) - So level 9, 3CHA, you still get a couple of hangers-on. Alternatively, the charisma modifier affects the roll directly - A MU with a tower gets 1d8 lvl1 MUs, +/- his charisma modifier.

Reputation modifies - this is a handy tool for the GM. Not only is this a potential growth/limiter, but you could use this as an indicator of what sorts of followers one gets. A fighter with a particularly vicious and greedy reputation is more likely to draw ruffians and blackguards (and possibly a few thieves), rather than a company of knights. A legendary archer will likely draw bowmen from all over. Level 9, 3 cha, bad reputation = too low, no followers. Or like with charisma, directly affects the roll.

Keep modifies: you may allow a draw of followers without a keep, but you still need a home base - they aren't following you on adventures. Having a nice castle/tower/whatever may bolster this.

Variety: If we don't want to use the levels per-se from the SRD, the higher levels could translate into higher quality or specialist followers - sergeants, cavalry units, archivists/sages, master forgers. Using this for highest HD of animal companions would work as well. Tables for each class, and some oddities, are needed. The various needs of the followers still need to be met (so if you collect horsemen, your stronghold needs stables. If you've got an alchemist on staff, set aside a decent budget for materials...and repairs). If we keep this to the assumption of a pool of lvl1s, the special followers could simply be double/triple count.

Growth: I touched on this, but we could add a system for growing followers (ignoring druids, who could literally grow them). adding a die each level gets ridiculous rather quickly. But these are also stay-at-home followers. They're minding the mint and keeping the peace whilst you and your drinking buddies go kicking down dragons and slaying doors. growing numbers is growing influence, but you won't draw more than your stronghold can hold, and there has to be some limit.

If we don't mind fixed growth, 1/level, modified by charisma and reputation - minimum 1, maximum... ?

[Metroknight]

What about a simple 1/2 HD of followers per level of pc? Use the CHA modifier as additional HD bonus. This would give the character at level 9 with an average CHA of 10 a total of 4.5 Hd of followers. If said character had a CHA of 18 then he would have a total of 7.5 HD of followers which you would count 0 level npcs as 1/2HD. Then when the character grows in level, he could use the HD to let his followers grow in levels or in numbers.

Using the same 9th level character with CHA of 10 that gathered his followers could have the following
4 level 1 followers and a 0 level followers
1 2nd level follower and 2 first level followers
1 2nd level follower and 1 first level follower and 2 0 level followers
9 0 level followers
etc...

Now if that character leveled up to 12 and has time to spend at his stronghold, he would have an additional 1.5HD to spend. He could increase his current followers in level or he could increase the amount of his followers or a combination of it.

All that would be needed is tables for what type of followers, i.e. racial and class type tables.

[SmootRK]

I like the ideas so far. So we have

Set a minimum level, and some sort of base of operations that can accommodate. A basic formula of (x+modifiers) hd per level. Maximum level/HD for any one follower is 1/2 the level of the character (rounded down). Then a series of modifiers which can be added to or even campaign specific, for instance (only ideas, subject to review/change):
Charisma Modifier (-3 to +3)
Reputation, Honor, or Renown (-3 to +3, GM decided or if some sort of system for such is used)
------
Lack of Suitable Housing, operates out of tent city or as nomadic (-3)
Basic Structure, House, etc. non-fortified (-1)
Basic Stonghold with some Fortification and Adequate Housing (+0)
Fortified Stronghold with support structures, land use, etc. (+1)
Small Castle/Keep (+2)
Large Fortress (+3)
Land Owner (+1)
Squatter or non-sanctioned use of land (-1)
Distance from Civilization (0 to -3)
---------
some campaign specific or dependent on supplement use
Class
Knight (+2)
Fighter, +0, No more than 10% (by HD) can be
Necromancer (-3)
Magic User ??
Cleric, 25% of followers (by HD) must be zero-level laypersons of non-fighting sort
Druid, Reverse all Fortification Bonuses but must be able to house the humanoids; half of follows (by HD) must be animals (non-humanoid, but may include Giant Animals or things like griffins, owlbears, etc.)
Ranger, reverse Fortification Bonuses for Distance; 25% of followers (by HD) should be animals, 25% should be non-human (elf, dwarf, gnome, orc, gnoll, etc. dependent on circumstance and campaign), and all should be terrain-appropriate for locale.

anyhow, ideas only... just trying to whip out some material for us to work with.