Combination Classes Questions

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Urieal
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Combination Classes Questions

Post by Urieal »

I have some questions regarding combinations classes (CCs)...

1). Do CCs take the best of each saving throw? i.e. does a fighter/magic-user take the Death Ray/Poison, Wands and Dragons Breath of a fighter and the Paralysis/Petrify and Spells of a magic-user?

2) Do CCs level advancements happen separately? i.e. does a fighter/magic-user advance to 2/1 level when they reach 4000 XP (2000 for fighter, 2000 for magic-user)...or does he advance to "2nd level" total when he reaches 4500 XP?

Thanks,
Jeff
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SmootRK
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Re: Combination Classes Questions

Post by SmootRK »

1. Saves: Yes, ComboClasses utilize the best saving throw figure given. At each level, one must do a comparison between the two classes to determine which save figure should be used.

2. Combo classes level at the same time, using the combined total of both classes. So, there is never an imbalance between the two class levels (you would never have a MU 5, F 7 character. This is one of the features that I like about this sort of arrangement because Hit Point calculations become much easier than (for instance) AD&D style multi-classing. One must determine the Hit Die.

You can see a slightly expanded combo class explanation in the Monsters as Races Supplement which includes the combo classes for MU-Thief, Cleric-MU, and the Fighter-MU.
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Urieal
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Re: Combination Classes Questions

Post by Urieal »

Thanks Smoot, that clears it up for me :D
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Solomoriah
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Re: Combination Classes Questions

Post by Solomoriah »

Does the Magic-User/Thief in your document agree with the one in the Gnomes supplement?
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SmootRK
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Re: Combination Classes Questions

Post by SmootRK »

Yes, with perhaps a couple of tweaks (wording only, not the mechanics). I took the original core rules info, gnome supplement (mu/t), and rewrote slightly to make the information consistent (along with the MU/C) and further clarifying Armor/Spellcasting issue. I suppose I should've considered making a Cleric/Thief entry to add to the mix.
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SmootRK
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Re: Combination Classes Questions

Post by SmootRK »

Recapping and extrapolating upon the core rules, to become a member of a combination class, a character must meet the requirements of both classes. Combination class characters use the best attack bonus and the best saving throw values of their original two classes.

When allowed by the Game Master, certain optional subclasses might be allowed as a component of the combination class. The Game Master may allow or disallow any particular combination class option based upon the race involved, campaign circumstances, or other factors. As always, the GM is the ultimate judge on this.

Fighter/Magic-User: These characters may both fight and cast magic spells. Some races retain armor use in varying degrees such as Elves having the ability to utilize any armor and still cast spells. A Fighter/Magic-User must gain experience equal to the combined requirements of both base classes. Fighter/Magic-Users roll six-sided dice (d6) for hit points.

Cleric/Magic-User: These rare characters combine the features of divine and arcane spell casters. Humanoid races often call these practitioners Witch Doctors, while other more civilized races often call them Theurgists. Generally, Cleric/Magic-Users do not have the ability to cast arcane spells in armor. Some races retain armor use in varying degrees such as Elves having the ability to utilize any armor and still cast spells. Cleric/Magic-Users must abide by the weapon restrictions of the Cleric class. Cleric/Magic-Users must gain experience equal to the combined requirements of both base classes, but get to roll six-sided dice (d6) for hit points. (-optionally roll d5 for hit points (d10, 1-2=1, 3-4=2, 5-6=3, 7-8=4, 9-0=5))

Magic-User/Thief: A Magic-User/Thief may cast spells while wearing leather armor, and may use any weapon allowed to the Thief. A Magic-User/Thief must gain experience equal to the combined requirements of both base classes. These characters roll four-sided dice (d4) for hit points.

Cleric/Thief: These characters often serve deities of stealth, deceit, or basic roguish ideals, although not all such deities are inherently nefarious. As Clerics, they can wear any armor but the Thief abilities are unusable in most armors except leather. Likewise, weapon restrictions are limited by the Cleric class, but the Thief Backstab ability may still be performed utilizing a one-handed melee weapon such as Maces, Warhammers, or Clubs. A Cleric/Thief must gain experience equal to the combined requirements of both base classes and roll a six-sided die (d6) for hit points. (-optionally roll d5 for hit points (d10, 1-2=1, 3-4=2, 5-6=3, 7-8=4, 9-0=5))
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SmootRK
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Re: Combination Classes Questions

Post by SmootRK »

The armor phrasing was changed to reflect the fact that these appear in the "monsters as races supplement" where additional (non-elf) races might utilize such combos.

The Cleric/Thief is something I just wrote here that could be added to that document easily.

And Further Discussion,
Fighter-Cleric or Fighter-Thief are both overall weak combinations. Better to be simply a Cleric (instead of F/C) as a Cleric would be a better fighter at equivalent XP values with no real benefit. Likewise better to be straight Thief over F/T as at equivalent XP values, the standard Thief is a better fighter than the combination would give.

These particular archetypes are perhaps better served by other class offerings such as Paladin (or Holy Characters), variant Clerics associated with warlike deities (granting more fighter-like benefits), Rangers, Barbarians, Assassin, or Thug (a Thief variant discussed somewhere on a thread - does not appear in a supplement as of yet).
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Hywaywolf
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Re: Combination Classes Questions

Post by Hywaywolf »

Question about the thief/MU. A thief can use metal armor but not be able to use his thief abilities. Why shouldn't the thief/MU be able to cast spells in metal armor same as an elf?
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SmootRK
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Re: Combination Classes Questions

Post by SmootRK »

Good Question. Elf casting in armor is OK; its an Elf thing, so long as the penalties to Thief abilities is understood... for other races, I think the Leather Armor thing is tolerable, even if it does not rationale out completely. If one wants to be a hard-ass about MU casting, then I don't see any issue with 'No Armor for MU, except for Elves' rule.

The mechanics were written specifically to cater to Gnomes (coming right out of that supplement). The wording was just generalized to be non-race specific.... I did not alter the actual mechanics any.
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Hywaywolf
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Re: Combination Classes Questions

Post by Hywaywolf »

I can dig that should be only for elves. I only asked because it seems that so many people forget that a thief facing a known combat situation when he has access to metal armor, and time to change into and out of said armor, would be a pretty dumb PC not to take advantage of that opportunity.
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