Xp Tables

[MacLeod]

I was wondering... ... ... What makes the Fighter's Levels worth more Xp than a Cleric's? End-game wise, the Fighter will have a little more Hp, 2 points more Attack Bonus, 3 points better Savings Throws... is that really worth 390,000 Xp? Especially when the Cleric can cast spells and turn the undead?

It just doesn't work for me.

Once I add in Favored Spells and the Prayer Ability to the Cleric whilst giving the Fighter Weapon Specialization... that they are somewhere near equal. Equal enough for me at least. At lower levels the Magic-User should be equal to a Thief Xp-wise, given how useless they are initially... and then ramp it up when they start getting "real magic." That said, my houseruled MU has the Arcane Lance and the Long Casting Abilities so they are useful at lower levels... thus I will keep their Xp requirements the same. I added the Assassination Ability at 10th Level and Luck Points to the Thief... so I think I will bump them up to the Cleric's Xp requirements.

Thoughts? Random criticisms? Rage?
I know my house rules aren't very popular but I'm okay with that.

[Sir Bedivere]

What are Favored Spells, the Prayer Ability, Arcane Lance, and Long Casting?

If you add Fav. Spells and Prayer to Clerics, and Weapon Specialization to Fighters, how does that balance the two classes out?

[MacLeod]

Favored Spells operate just as Spontaneous Spellcasting works in 3.5... Clerics can convert a spell into a specific spell instantly. The spell acquired is based on the spell level converted. So healer type clerics will have Cure spells as their Favored Spells.
Prayer allows clerics to attempt to cast any spell they know without expending a spell slot. This is a feat* test based on Wisdom with a Difficulty based on the level of the spell attempting to be cast. The Difficulty is lowered by 1 when Praying for Favored Spells.

* See my House Rules thread on this forum for more information

Arcane Lance is a Magic-User's ability to expend a spell slot and manifest a bolt of pure magical energy with which to strike an enemy. The damage dice rolled is based on the MU's Level and the number of dice rolled is based on the spell slot sacrificed. Arcane Lance can be Long Cast.
Long Casting is the MU version of Prayer except that MUs don't receive any bonus and they can only Long Cast a spell from their spell book.

a note on Prayer and Long Cast... they may seem a little broken but spells from 4th Level and above are really difficult to pull off. Furthermore, the penalty for failing a Prayer/Long Cast is the loss of one's powers for a duration.

How does it balance the two a bit...? Clerical magic in BFRPG isn't nearly as powerful as it is in D&D3.5 but still adds interesting variety the Fighter doesn't have. Make it a little more potent, versatile and simply more... and it is greater indeed. But with Fighter's Weapon Specialization he can get 2 attacks per round plus attack & damage bonuses further making him a death machine o' doom.
I think the two are somewhere near balanced... at least enough for my own devices.

[Sir Bedivere]

Thanks for the explanations. I played AD&D way, way back, and last year started RPGing again in a 4th edition campaign, but references to the 2-3-3.5 editions are meaningless to me.

Since your original problem was that fighters need more XP to gain levels, I thought your answer would be to add something to the fighter class. Adding new capabilities to both classes seems to leave the differences in XP problem unsolved. But that's just my 2 cents, and I haven't really thought through the balancing act here.

Just eyeballing it, the fact that fighters need more XP than clerics seems wrong, but Solomoriah is pretty good about knowing how things work out in the game and I'm sure he had a reason for it. Maybe the weakness of cleric spells you mention? That said, what's an RPG without a million house rules?

[MacLeod]

Indeed. Its sort of internal conflict I have. I think because cleric magic isn't almighty (but still very useful) that the few tweaks I did come out to some form of balance... not that a true balance can ever be achieved but I think the cleric and fighter are closer now than they were before. To me at least, and I guess that is all that counts in the end I s'pose.

[MacLeod]

That said, what's an RPG without a million house rules?

I love me some house rules.

[Hywaywolf]

I see it as an incentive to encourage people to play a cleric. If they were equivalent most people would choose fighter over being a cleric. Yes, I know some people like playing clerics, but I believe they are the minority compared to people who'd rather be a straight fighter. Its rare to see a post from someone recruiting for a new game stating that they are still looking for a fighter. Its usually the cleric they are looking for.

[MacLeod]

That's true. I've never actually played a cleric before, personally and when I introduce them into my campaigns they are usually a little weird. As in, they serve a death god or something cool like that... and wield a giant scythe. =P

[Birthright]

Two words: Magic Weapons

BTB, bludgeoning weapons only make up 13% of magical weapons, so Fighters have a MUCH, MUCH better chance of getting access to the more powerful +3 weapons (or even any magic weapon for that matter) over the course of a campaign.

And...
Clerics are very limited in their selection of missile weapons, while fighters can use anything they want.
Clerics need to 'behave themselves' and follow some kind of ethos, whereas a fighter can more or less do as he pleases.
At 20th level, the average Cleric has 43 hp while the average Fighter has 63 (nearly 50% more)
The extra +2 to hit is far from negligible in a basic game where to-hit bonuses are hard to come by.

[MacLeod]

...in whose world? Not mine.

I am pretty lenient when it comes to this stuff anyways. Not all clerics are mushy do-gooders that refuse to use a scythe to reap a little havoc in the name of good.

Personally, if I had the gusto... I'd create my own OGL-derived game in the vein of BFRPG that eschews the +1,+2,+3 progression of magic items in favor of more flavorful magical items that are rare. (it would also have armor as DR and Defense value progression via level)