Armor and Shields

[Solomoriah]

Post your comments here for the Armor and Shields supplement.

https://basicfantasy.org/downloads.html#armorandshields

[SmootRK]

Very Nice!

I have only one suggestion at this time... perhaps the armors can be grouped (or marked) according to Light, Medium, or Heavy. I only say this because other supplements might need some (simple) differentiation. For instance, Rangers and Barbarians use primarily 'light' armors else they lose some functions of their special abilities. Otherwise, one must list the usable armors individually.

I guess another suggestion... any chance we can also get piecemeal armor? The list of the major parts of plate mail just begs for such information for each armor chunk having an individual AC adjustment. I am no expert on armors, so others might have better ideas of how to break down the pieces and their values.

Having a few fantasy inspired armors might be cool... Shell Armor, Wood Studded Leather/Hide, dragon-skin... thinking more mundane types that might be possible in a fantasy world than weirdly magical ones (adamantine and such).

[Urieal]

I like the grammatical, layout and so on/so forth changes. The only one that I am not fond of is the bonuses for a tower shield. The reason I had originally put tower at +1 for melee was because it's so bulky and cumbersome that it would be difficult to maneuver for deflections; +2/+4 seems a bit too powerful.

Perhaps a compromise at +1/+3?

[Urieal]

Very Nice!

Thanks! I feel the need to contribute!

I have only one suggestion at this time... perhaps the armors can be grouped (or marked) according to Light, Medium, or Heavy. I only say this because other supplements might need some (simple) differentiation. For instance, Rangers and Barbarians use primarily 'light' armors else they lose some functions of their special abilities. Otherwise, one must list the usable armors individually.

That would be fairly easy to implement. I could include it in the table, or, I could simply state that armor < x lbs. = light...etc.

I guess another suggestion... any chance we can also get piecemeal armor? The list of the major parts of plate mail just begs for such information for each armor chunk having an individual AC adjustment. I am no expert on armors, so others might have better ideas of how to break down the pieces and their values.

This could probably be done as well, although it might not fit within the idea of BFRPG (simplicity). Perhaps as an optional rule...

Having a few fantasy inspired armors might be cool... Shell Armor, Wood Studded Leather/Hide, dragon-skin... thinking more mundane types that might be possible in a fantasy world than weirdly magical ones (adamantine and such).

I took a look at the 4E armors and they had various names for this sort of thing...but I think it would be better suited for a DM to create their own world and implement unique fabrics/metals/etc. for armors, giving appropriate bonuses/penalties/etc.

[Urieal]

Can anyone think of any shield sizes that I left out?

I had originally thought to have small/med/large shields...but it didn't seem right. Small was really buckler sized, medium encompassed round, kite and heater shields and large...well...that's what a tower shield is...

I know there are other armor types that I didn't include...like Brigandine and some others...but I didn't include them because their historicity is in question (ring mail's is too...but I like to think of ring as a predecessor of chain mail) and there were other armors that fit the AC target number I was hoping to fill.

[SmootRK]

Wood vs. Metal Shields would have significant differences in their use (by factor of the weight)... and is a factor if one uses Druid characters.

I also think a small note can be made on the Buckler that one's shield hand can be free to do other tasks, or hold other objects... ie. for two-weapon fighting or holding a torch, lantern, rod/wand, or simply being free.

Given that info, perhaps a note to allow Thieves access to bucklers without penalty (but not other types). Likewise, I would permit a MU to use a lightweight (non-metal) buckler, but that might cross the line for some, and not be an option for all GMs.

[Solomoriah]

Urieal, just download the manuscript and revise it as you see fit; send it back to me and I'll repost it. You can add the wood shields then if you wish.

[SmootRK]

I like the piecemeal armor rule you came up with. Am I re-capping properly.
Breastplate +2, worn over padded armor base, cannot be worn over other armors.
all other pieces (usually pairs) +1, but max of +3 through these pieces.

I would remove Gauntlets as a Piecemeal part. Along with appropriate headgear/helmets, they are an assumed part of armor that don't add to the overall AC value. Otherwise, people will be wondering what AC bonus they get from various magic items and such, even when they wear other armor types (or none).

I think that separate wood and metal shields needed in table (for weight differences), and I am unsure of the weight values given... seems like a (predominately) metal tower shield would weigh in more than 12 pounds, same thinking on the other shields. Perhaps these would be appropriate weights for wood (or similar lightweight materials), and the metal versions would be more.... but again, I am not especially knowledgeable of real world armors.

And, I think the buckler should have something in it to say 'shield hand remains free to hold/use objects (except for another shield device).

The other stuff about Thief or MU using bucklers is certainly optional at best (but something I will likely do).

I would modify Hide Armor to 25 lbs, so that it remains in your Light Category, it would remain sub-par to standard leather anyhow based upon weight and perceived value (cost). I would juxtapose Splint and Scale so that the armors are in AC order primarily then Weight (rather than cost order in this portion of the table).
These table adjustments should put everything also into some semblance of order in regards to Light, Medium, and Heavy armor types.

I love having the full range of armors developed for BFRPG.

[Urieal]

I like the piecemeal armor rule you came up with. Am I re-capping properly.
Breastplate +2, worn over padded armor base, cannot be worn over other armors.
all other pieces (usually pairs) +1, but max of +3 through these pieces.

Not exactly...you get +1/2 AC for every piece. So...padded armor = AC 12...+2 for a breastplate = 14...+1/2 for vambraces = 14.5...+ 1/2 for guantlets = 15...+ 1/2 for faulds = 15.5....+ 1/2 for tassets = 16... + 1/2 for greaves = 16.5... + 1/2 for pauldrons = 17.

All the pieces put together = 17 (which is what Plate Mail Armor's AC is)

Using the above math...each 1/2 a piece (i.e. 1 gauntlet,1 vambrace, etc.) would 1/4 of an AC point.

The idea was to make the math all add up properly.

I would remove Gauntlets as a Piecemeal part. Along with appropriate headgear/helmets, they are an assumed part of armor that don't add to the overall AC value. Otherwise, people will be wondering what AC bonus they get from various magic items and such, even when they wear other armor types (or none).

Headgear/helmets aren't part of Plate Mail Armor by default. One can wear Plate without wearing a helm.

Though it is not mentioned, I would assume that piecemail magic armor would only work as a full set. If you take the vambraces and gauntlets from Plate Mail +2 and add them to your chainmail +2, you get no additional bonus. Unless the whole armor is donned, the magic doesn't work.

I think that separate wood and metal shields needed in table (for weight differences), and I am unsure of the weight values given... seems like a (predominately) metal tower shield would weigh in more than 12 pounds, same thinking on the other shields. Perhaps these would be appropriate weights for wood (or similar lightweight materials), and the metal versions would be more.... but again, I am not especially knowledgeable of real world armors.

I didn't add this because it really is beyond the scope of the document. Some shields may be 35% wood, 20% metal and 45% hardened leather. The makeup is really unlimited. Adding this is something that might be better left to a different supplement. Providing statistics for wooden vs. metal vs. ceramic or any other substance should be applicable to armor, shields and weapons alike. What happens if someone has an obsidian tipped spear? Is it more likely to break? Different damage? etc...

None of the weights on the sheet were derived from any actual calculations. Real world armor is probably heavier than what is mentioned in the game.

And, I think the buckler should have something in it to say 'shield hand remains free to hold/use objects (except for another shield device).

I was going to leave this up to the DM...but I think I might add it. Mainly for dual-weapon wielding, not for thieves or MUs though.

I would modify Hide Armor to 25 lbs, so that it remains in your Light Category, it would remain sub-par to standard leather anyhow based upon weight and perceived value (cost). I would juxtapose Splint and Scale so that the armors are in AC order primarily then Weight (rather than cost order in this portion of the table).
These table adjustments should put everything also into some semblance of order in regards to Light, Medium, and Heavy armor types.

I purposefully put Hide at 30 so it wouldn't qualify for light. Most demi-humans and barbaric races would use this. The weights are relative anyhow...goblins wear hide armor that is less than 25 lbs...but it's still not "light" to them. I wanted a reason for people to wear leather instead of hide other than the fact that it costs less.

Scale and Splint were put in that order because Splint is "better armor"...even though the AC is the same...most users would prefer the 10 lb. weight relief of Splint...which is why it costs more than Scale. I wanted it to go ascending based on AC, then quality, and lastly weight. Following this same logic, though, Hide and Leather should be flipped.

I love having the full range of armors developed for BFRPG.

Thanks! I had already put together a list akin to this for my RPOL game...but this is more detailed

[Solomoriah]

Urieal, I have to say I disagree with the dual wielding option presented in the revised supplement. A character with a buckler should not be able to attack with the off-hand weapon and gain the shield's AC bonus in the same round; shields work because you put them in the way of incoming weapons, not merely because you wear one.