Damage Reduction

[Qualitymix]

I've searched the forums and relevant supplements for rules regarding damage reduction, and haven't found anything. Does something like this exist?
I'm asking because, in my mind, it seems silly that a Fighter wearing plate mail receives the same damage as a Magic User, even though he is harder to hit.

I'd think an appropriate damage reduction chart would look something like this:

Leather: +0 DR
Chain Mail: +1 DR
Plate Mail: +2 DR

Shield: +1 DR

[SmootRK]

I would not mind seeing a DR based system that is used along with the traditional AC. Your idea is a good start. I think I would give Leather some DR potential though. Perhaps:

Leather (light armors) 1 DR
Chain (medium armors) 2 DR
Plate (heavy armors) 4 DR

Small or Medium Shield 1 DR
* small shield/buckler only being usable against 1 attack per round.
Tower/Large Shield 2 DR

One major caveat - a hit will always cause at least 1 point of damage.

In my mind helps offset the really slow movement rates of the heavier armors. I also like the idea that this gives another quantifiable statistic that can be further modified or penalized in certain circumstances. For instance, lets take into account special (harder) materials such as mithril +1 DR or adamantine +2 DR. Conversely, bronze, bone, or even wood armors -1 DR respectively. Then there can be monsters that can overcome certain amounts of DR, spells "soften metal or hardened armor" etc. Swords or Weapons that have a special feature of bypassing a certain amount of DR. etc.

So, basically it is not only a tad more realistic but also opens up a new layer of complexity to combat for those that want that extra level of detail in their game.

That all said, I like the mechanics of core rules and probably would not further modify it for my kids' games, but amongst those wanting a little more complexity I think it would work fine.

[Qualitymix]

I love those suggestions. Think I might run that in my game. Thanks Smoot!

[Dimirag]

I personally would not use DR from shields, they work better as a defense bonus as a way of cover. But maybe letting the player chose where the bonus applies might be an interesting idea...

Here is the d20 take on that: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adven ... uction.htm

[black1blade]

If I where using DR then I would have AC be 11+ dex mod+ shield mod. Shields shouldn't get DR as if a blow hits a shield it is miss imo.

[Qualitymix]

I see the different schools of thought. On one hand the whole AC combat mechanic takes glancing blows and minute hits into consideration. But then my frustration lies with the very low hits, or very high hits. So if I, level 1 fighter with chain mail , get hit, but then the monster only rolls a 1 for damage, that to me seems like a glancing blow. But then if that same monster hits for 8, not only did my armor do no more than the mage's , but I'm also likely dead.

On the other hand, allowing for only DR mechanics, makes sense in some ways, but at higher levels, makes it very difficult to be successful.

This is why I'd like to see some kind of hybrid mechanic, that allows the AC mechanic do what it does best (that is tell a combat story) but also allow the DR mechanic to help make sense of the damage taken in relation to the armor being worn.

maybe a give and take, so that leather adds has like an 12 AC but 1 DR, Chain Mail 14 AC and 2DR, and plate mail 16 AC and 4 DR

I edited the values to better reflect my intention.

[Solomoriah]

If the attacker's weapon enters through a chink in your armor (and no armor is perfect), then it absolutely should do full damage. DR systems violate that rule. Even the best medieval armor has a eye slit... and tell me that a sword stabbed into your eyes shouldn't do a heck of a lot of damage.

Some other games with DR also use exploding dice, which mitigate this effect somewhat, but the traditional system used by BFRPG gets the same result with less effort.

Don't get hung up on the "damage" roll without considering the "to hit" roll also. A first level fighter (AB +1) attacking a fighter in plate mail (AC 17) hits on a 16 or better, or about 25% of the time; attacks against the magic-user without any armor at all (AC 11) hit on 10 or higher, i.e. 55% of the time; he's more than twice as likely to be hit, and has on average 2 less hit points than the fighter. The average damage for a sword is 4.5, the same as the fighter's average 1st level hit points, making him roughly 50/50 to be killed... but the magic-user's maximum is 4, so he's much more likely to die.

[Dimirag]

One of the d20 options is that, to allow both an AC bonus and a DR.
Conan RPG and other games directly gives a Defense bonus based on class/level and leaves the DR to equipment.

In OSR games the "damage quality" is given by the percentage of HP lost, 6 damage points are not always the same, it depends on how much HP takes away from a character, 6 points in a d6 is the best you can do with that attack, against a 4HP npc is a killing blow, against a 21HP fighters its just a well placed hit.

Other idea is to use Damage Conversion (I'm planning in using that): You give each AC a value similar to DR but higher, any damage that is lower than that number is non-lethal, equal or higher is lethal, it does not change the amount of damage received but gives and extra benefit to armor, and is specially good if you use faster healing rates for non-lethal damage.

[Mint]

I seem to remember we had this discussion before not too long ago. Probably Hywaywolf, who is an ace at finding old threads, could probably link it in. Not from the DR angle exactly but about how all the different things work together in combat. I believe my particular thing was how DEX and STR worked in combat and how it worked together with AC. There are probably thousands, if not more, ways to break open combat mathematically. It all boils down to how much time you want to spend agonizing over details. For me BFRPG is the best compromise going. I really don't want to lean back in my chair (hypothetically since I don't have a F2F group at the moment) and listen to two people arguing about how some itty rule works in such and such a situation. The core books are pulled out. The discussion continues. Then come out the specialty books. The discussion continues. Meanwhile two of the players have started up an impromptu little board game on the side and another is on the computer checking their MMORPG and next thing you know...the evening is gone.

[Dimirag]

Here's that conversation: Speculation on Combat with regards to Stats

Another option: Give each armor a DR die, d4/d6/d8 for example, it represents the strong and weak points in an armor defense. Shields should be used solely for AC bonus.