IF75: The Lakeside Adventures — discussion

[Demetrius]

I've seen that we don't have a thread for discussing IF75, so I've decided I start one.

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Thanks for the publication of the PDFs! I've started reading IF75, and it's great (although I've also ordered it from Lulu, looking forward to getting it in a book form).

It would be sad if WotC-made disaster would cause problems for this gem of a setting.

I absolutely love the options presented by placing the setting in real-world. It gives a different perspective on a lot of things.

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I have a small nitpick. Hopefully it could be useful for future revisions.

The Latin name of the book Cultus ex Sanctus Cuthberti is incorrect. It breaks two grammar rules. First, adjectives and nouns should agree with each other (here they don't: Sanctus is nominative, Cuthberti is genitive). Second, after 'ex' we use neither nominative nor gentive, but ablative.

I can fix grammar: that should be either Cultus ex Sancto Cuthberto 'Worship/veneration/cult from St Cuthbert' or Cultus Sancti Cuthberti 'Worship/veneration/cult of St Cuthbert'. Note that in the second option, there are 2 interpretations: St Cuthbert can be either the one who venerates (genetivus subjectivus; perhaps the believer imitates St Cuthbert) or the one venerated (genetivus objectivus; perhaps the believer turns to him in prayers).

I'm also not sure about the word choice. Cultus is not wrong, it's just a bit different from what the English says (but then, it's not uncommon for books to have different names in different languages).

I couldn't find a common translation for 'devotional'. (It doesn't mean it doesn't exist, but I have not been able to found it.)

But if I were to try to translate 'devotional' closer to English, I'd go with liber 'book', because devotional is a type of a book (Liber Sancti Cuthberti 'Book of St Cuthbert'). Or maybe precationes 'prayers' (Precationes Sancti Cuthberti 'Prayers of St Cuthbert'), because (if I understand correctly) devotional is a book of devotions, which are a type of prayers. Or maybe liber precationum 'book of prayers' (Liber precationum Sancti Cuthberti 'Book of prayers of St Cuthbert').

I'm not sure which of the variants I've presented is better. Maybe all of them are not good enough (my Latin is far from perfect). But I can vouch that all of them are at least grammatically correct, unlike ex Sanctus Cuthberti.

Sorry for the nitpicking, but I've though it might be useful for future revisions.

[toddlyons]

Sorry for the nitpicking, but I've though it might be useful for future revisions.

This is useful and was fascinating to read. Thanks for taking the time to explain the options so clearly.

[Solomoriah]

I figured there were a lot of things people might find wrong, but I hadn't even considered the Latin.



Will fix if there is ever a future update.

[YYZombraire]

At least you don't have to write it out a hundred times on the blackboard...

(Seriously though, thanks for the correction and explanation.)

[AlMan]

Thank you Demetrius, don't apologize for being nitpicky, it helps to produce the best books by working together. If it were up to me I would vote for Liber precationum Sancti Cuthberti

[Arcane_Hunter89]

I've seen that we don't have a thread for discussing IF75, so I've decided I start one.

___

Thanks for the publication of the PDFs! I've started reading IF75, and it's great (although I've also ordered it from Lulu, looking forward to getting it in a book form).

It would be sad if WotC-made disaster would cause problems for this gem of a setting.

I absolutely love the options presented by placing the setting in real-world. It gives a different perspective on a lot of things.

___

I have a small nitpick. Hopefully it could be useful for future revisions.

The Latin name of the book Cultus ex Sanctus Cuthberti is incorrect. It breaks two grammar rules. First, adjectives and nouns should agree with each other (here they don't: Sanctus is nominative, Cuthberti is genitive). Second, after 'ex' we use neither nominative nor gentive, but ablative.

I can fix grammar: that should be either Cultus ex Sancto Cuthberto 'Worship/veneration/cult from St Cuthbert' or Cultus Sancti Cuthberti 'Worship/veneration/cult of St Cuthbert'. Note that in the second option, there are 2 interpretations: St Cuthbert can be either the one who venerates (genetivus subjectivus; perhaps the believer imitates St Cuthbert) or the one venerated (genetivus objectivus; perhaps the believer turns to him in prayers).

I'm also not sure about the word choice. Cultus is not wrong, it's just a bit different from what the English says (but then, it's not uncommon for books to have different names in different languages).

I couldn't find a common translation for 'devotional'. (It doesn't mean it doesn't exist, but I have not been able to found it.)

But if I were to try to translate 'devotional' closer to English, I'd go with liber 'book', because devotional is a type of a book (Liber Sancti Cuthberti 'Book of St Cuthbert'). Or maybe precationes 'prayers' (Precationes Sancti Cuthberti 'Prayers of St Cuthbert'), because (if I understand correctly) devotional is a book of devotions, which are a type of prayers. Or maybe liber precationum 'book of prayers' (Liber precationum Sancti Cuthberti 'Book of prayers of St Cuthbert').

I'm not sure which of the variants I've presented is better. Maybe all of them are not good enough (my Latin is far from perfect). But I can vouch that all of them are at least grammatically correct, unlike ex Sanctus Cuthberti.

Sorry for the nitpicking, but I've though it might be useful for future revisions.

This is a very underrated thread topic, imo. I'm a big geek for religious imagery, so having a more faithful Latin title is something I'm definitely "nerding out" over.

[Solomoriah]

If Iron Falcon '75 survives the OGL apocalypse I'll definitely change it.

[Demetrius]

Another proposal for the Latin title:

Liber devotionalis Sancti Cuthberti (Devotional book of Saint Cuthbert)


This is not Classical Latin, Cicero wouldn't use devotionalis this way (in fact, I'm not even sure devotionalis is ever attested in Classical time). In Classical Latin devotio did not have a meaning 'prayer'. But Mediaeval Latin often used words in meaning closer to that of modern modern languages (the turn to the Classical Latin started with Renaissance, and was not happening immediately).

There are some books using devotionalis in similar meaning. There are mentions of the 1356 book Liber Officiorum Devotionalis, continens Psalterium, Hymnos, Litaniam, Officium B. Marie Virginis (Devotional Book of Offices, containing Psalms, Hymns, Lythany, Service of the Blessed Virgin Mary). And a mention of 16th century book Liber devotionalis, so it's not outright incorrect. Although fans of Classical Latin would probably not be happy with this version.


What makes me like this translation is that in Classical Latin, devotio has a different meaning... and among them, it can mean 'spell' (see Wiktionary for the full list of meanings)!

Which could be a fascinating play on words: it could be a book of prayers (if you use Mediaeval-ish interpretation) or a book of spells (if you use Classical meaning)! I think it could be fitting for a world where the magic is returning.