Druids Supplement

Creating game materials? Monsters, spells, classes, adventures? This is the place!
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Solomoriah
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Re: Druids Supplement

Post Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:33 am

And this discussion is exactly why the core rules don't have touch attacks.
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SmootRK
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Re: Druids Supplement

Post Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:26 am

Solomoriah wrote:And this discussion is exactly why the core rules don't have touch attacks.
Why so? Because there is more than one way to "skin a cat"?

But, it could perhaps be put into an "Expanded Combat Options" supplement, perhaps alongside other new rules such as Mass Combat, Grid/Mini Combat, or others that people are currently developing... or just expanding the current Combat Options Supplement that Solomoriah has made way back.
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Re: Druids Supplement

Post Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:34 am

No, because once you wander too far from the core rules, it becomes hard to figure out exactly how things should work. Whereas Ascending AC is just a different numerical method to get the same result, a touch attack rule has to be worked into the game in many places.
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SmootRK
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Re: Druids Supplement

Post Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:20 am

Solomoriah wrote:No, because once you wander too far from the core rules, it becomes hard to figure out exactly how things should work. Whereas Ascending AC is just a different numerical method to get the same result, a touch attack rule has to be worked into the game in many places.
Perhaps, but I don't see it much differently (in the rule sense) than an instance where one decides to fight differently such as "defensive", or "two-weapon fighting"... certainly would come up less often than either such combat tweak.

It comes up when primarily a spell caster needs to deliver certain spells (where one must touch, and usually these are beneficial types (sometimes such reversed)) to moving targets (typically opponents), or extraordinary situations such (as I have mentioned in the more verbose description in the thread where I talk about my combat modifications) like torching a flammable person/object.

All very logical to me, but I understand differing views will see things with other paradigms. Here is how I have the idea fully detailed (so far anyhow):
Touch Attacks
Sometimes the idea of an attack is just to make some contact with the subject, not necessarily hard or precise like one needs for weapon strike, often essentially ignoring the qualities of armor; these "touch attacks" may be made using one's hands (the standard method), as a special ranged attack (specifically identified by the spell, effect, or ability), or even in rare cases by touching with an object (such as applying a burning torch to an oil-soaked target).

Such "Touch Attacks" made with the intention of simply making contact with a substantial part of a target in order to deliver a spell or similar special effect, and not to strike for damage (from the strike itself), makes the attack roll at +4 to hit. The Game Master may factor in additional modifiers that seem appropriate for such attacks such as extraordinarily large and/or slow targets or conversely exceptionally small and/or fast targets. The GM should exercise caution with additional modifiers, keeping in mind that some such details may have already been factored into the Armor Class of the target, especially with some monster entries.
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Re: Druids Supplement

Post Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:59 pm

This is how I have edited the spell description (which will appear in Libram Magica). Note that the spell does not actually reference any sort of additional rules, only incorporating the ideas above into the spell without explanation. At this time, Solo would prefer that I do not edit the Druid Document directly with this "fix".

Produce Flame/Cold
D 2
Range: self (and special)
Duration: 1 minute / level

Flames as bright as a torch appear in your open hand. The flames harm neither you nor your equipment. Alternatively, a bluish, cold aura may be produced (also produces light bright as torch-light). Neither variation of the spell functions underwater.

In addition to providing illumination, the flames or cold aura can be hurled or used in melee against enemies. You can touch an opponent in melee (with a +4 bonus to hit), dealing fire or cold damage respectively equal to 1d6 +1 point per caster level (maximum +10). Alternatively, you can hurl the flames or cold aura up to 120 feet as a thrown weapon. When doing so, you attack with a ranged attack (with no range penalty and likewise with an additional +4 bonus to hit), dealing the same damage as with the melee attack. No sooner do you hurl the flames or cold aura, the effect reappears upon your hand. Each attack you make reduces the remaining duration by 1 minute. If an attack reduces the remaining duration to 0 minutes or less, the spell ends after the attack resolves.
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LibraryLass
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Re: Druids Supplement

Post Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:07 pm

Okay, so naturally I'm a bit late to the party... but I feel like the Druid's spell list is not really there yet. A couple specific nitpicks come to mind, I've organized them below by level.

1st level:
Why Light? Faerie Fire adds a few lines, but it's a druid classic.

2nd level:
Message isn't necessarily a bad choice, but as far as I can tell in BFRPG the druid is the only class that has it, which is sort of strange. If a druid were to have some kind of unique way to deliver a message I'd think it'd be some sort of animal messenger or something.
Snake Charm seems like a completely out of left field choice. Especially because at the same level the regular cleric gets Charm Animal in the core rules. I mean I know Druids have Animal Friendship at level 1... but Animal Friendship requires a lengthy ritual, so I think it's different enough to consider swapping out snake charm for it.

3rd level:
I think BFRPG is the only place that I've seen this signature Druid power as a spell. I don't object, but it's interesting enough to be worthy of mentioning.
Continual Light is an unusual choice for a Druid but I don't object to it or have any particular suggestions vis-a-vis replacement.

4th level:
Okay, I'm gonna come out and say it: I don't like Sticks to Snakes. It's always felt entirely too biblical to me. Too Moses. I can sort of see it in another context for a druid, but it's still a bit of an oddball given its most famous caster.

5th level:
Seems solid, though I'd have gone for a full eight for this one personally. Maybe add Animal Growth and Insect Plague or Summon Animal or something (it actually surprises me a little that there's not an animal summoning spell in place, that's another thing that feels classic to me)?

6th level:
Animate Object feels... a little general, I guess? Hard to explain. Maybe something like Animate Plants? Go all Treebeard?


Edit: leaving all my whining aside, you also don't have spell descriptions for Snake Charm or Message.
Last edited by LibraryLass on Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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SmootRK
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Re: Druids Supplement

Post Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:17 pm

Great Feedback, and good observations on the spells. Have you looked at how the spell lists expand slightly with the Libram Magica (in showcase)? The expanded spell lists might help ease this for you.

That said, I did not write the supplement originally, only giving the text of the class a rewrite to make it a bit more stand-alone-ish. Some changes to spells, the spell list, and a fresh look overall is probably long overdue...

not that everything you said needs directly changed immediately, but it is certainly debatable and tweak-able changes that can improve the class and make it fit better.
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LibraryLass
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Re: Druids Supplement

Post Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:22 pm

SmootRK wrote:Great Feedback, and good observations on the spells. Have you looked at how the spell lists expand slightly with the Libram Magica (in showcase)? The expanded spell lists might help ease this for you.

That said, I did not write the supplement originally, only giving the text of the class a rewrite to make it a bit more stand-alone-ish. Some changes to spells, the spell list, and a fresh look overall is probably long overdue...

not that everything you said needs directly changed immediately, but it is certainly debatable and tweak-able changes that can improve the class and make it fit better.
Yeah, it addresses some of it, but it's not quite for me for other reasons.
Not to sound personal or anything, mind you. I just like to retain a more classic-D&D-esque feel and a fair amount of what's in LM is slightly more original (for lack of a better term).
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SmootRK
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Re: Druids Supplement

Post Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:27 pm

LibraryLass wrote:
SmootRK wrote:Great Feedback, and good observations on the spells. Have you looked at how the spell lists expand slightly with the Libram Magica (in showcase)? The expanded spell lists might help ease this for you.

That said, I did not write the supplement originally, only giving the text of the class a rewrite to make it a bit more stand-alone-ish. Some changes to spells, the spell list, and a fresh look overall is probably long overdue...

not that everything you said needs directly changed immediately, but it is certainly debatable and tweak-able changes that can improve the class and make it fit better.
Yeah, it addresses some of it, but it's not quite for me for other reasons.
Not to sound personal or anything, mind you. I just like to retain a more classic-D&D-esque feel and a fair amount of what's in LM is slightly more original (for lack of a better term).
Yes, pretty much on purpose. Cannot copy stuff wholesale from other sources (ethically for a document that might see print one day). There is probably more "open content" spell that can be inserted to help there, but haven't done writing there in a while.
That said, no reason one cannot utilize basically anything in their home games. ;)
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Solomoriah
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Re: Druids Supplement

Post Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:36 pm

If you two want to dig in to the Druids Supplement and send me a revised version, that'd be cool...
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