Thought on expanding IF for my own games

This subforum is for discussion of the Iron Falcon Rules for Classic Fantasy Role-Playing. Maybe someday they'll have their own forum, but for now I'm keeping the discussion here.
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cbarchuk
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Re: Thought on expanding IF for my own games

Post Fri Jan 01, 2021 9:48 pm

I don't mind the instant death thing, but I don't like some rules to be vague leading to abuse, doubt or discussion (a level 1 assassin with a lucky roll could kill almost anything that has a throat regardless of level, HD, HP, etc... that is why I linked it to backstab)
I don't mind it either. I think its pretty cool. But I definitely would limit it to, as it says, creatures with a throat or a target with stereotypical anatomy. (So no undead, slimes etc...) Do you think the limit to only the very first melee round is needed?
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Re: Thought on expanding IF for my own games

Post Fri Jan 01, 2021 10:37 pm

I think its needed, otherwise the assassin has the chance of directly killing any opponent with each strike regardless of damage and hit points
Sorry for any misspelling or writing error, I am not a native English speaker
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cbarchuk
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Re: Thought on expanding IF for my own games

Post Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:49 am

Dimirag wrote: Fri Jan 01, 2021 10:37 pm I think its needed, otherwise the assassin has the chance of directly killing any opponent with each strike regardless of damage and hit points
Well it still has to take place via backstab so surprise or hide in shadows/move silently is still needed. In AD&D Assassination requires actual surprise while backstab does not. So since we're not using the percentage table to outright kill something I think just keeping the requirements for backstab in place is sufficient. So if the Assassin can pull off a backstab then there's a chance for the target to be instantly slain. That will only happen once per combat, maybe twice at most.
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Re: Thought on expanding IF for my own games

Post Sat Jan 02, 2021 4:13 pm

Do you think the limit to only the very first melee round is needed?
I though you where speaking of the original skill.
My take as its linked to backstabbing should not need any more restrictions as its even less powerful than other assassination skills...

...which makes makes me think that a 5% chance on a situational strike could be a little weak. Even a Master Assassin of 10th level would have a 15% of killing a target with a successful backstab...

if I wanted to keep it related to the attack roll with either:
A.1) A die roll of 16+, reduced by 1 at some levels.
A.2) A die roll of 16+, with a level based backstab bonus.
B.1) Rolling a set amount above the To Hit Value with the assassin reducing the amount needed at some levels.
B.2) Rolling a set amount above the To Hit Value with the assassin improving his backstabbing attack bonus at some levels.
C) Use a Level vs Level/HD to determine the roll needed to convert a backstabbing into a killing strike akin to the Advanced table
Sorry for any misspelling or writing error, I am not a native English speaker
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Re: Thought on expanding IF for my own games

Post Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:36 am

Here's a version of the Assassin by B/X Blackrazor. He made it for the Holmes rule set but I really thought he did a fantastic job and that it would fit well within the similar rule set of IF. He made it with a level maximum of 12. The original OD&D Assassin only went up to level 14. So I'm not sure if it should be tweaked for levels 1-20. I'm currently reaching out to him to get his thoughts.
Last edited by cbarchuk on Wed Jan 06, 2021 12:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Thought on expanding IF for my own games

Post Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:58 pm

Okay so after much deliberation I mixed some ideas from B/X Blackrazor, Necropraxis, tweaked a few things here and there and made an Assassin class that I like for Iron Falcon. I plan on doing this for all the sub-classes. Obviously some will need much less tweaking compared to others. Anyways I always thought the Assassin class was a bit of an odd duck and too similar to the thief. Despite that I still wanted to include it but make it more distinct since OD&D is all about house rules anyways right? :) By the way, you'll notice I use a d6 for skills. I also do this for the thief as I simply prefer it. The only thing I'm uncertain about is the XP progression. The Assassin class typically has a higher progression than the thief but that's with it's original layout. Anyways, here it is...Cheers.
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Re: Thought on expanding IF for my own games

Post Sun Jan 24, 2021 8:58 pm

Chris, as you can tell from this thread I'm adding in the Ranger, Druid, and Assassin, to my homebrew IF game. I'm trying to obviously pull from original source material while also keeping things in the same framework of IF. I know for legal reasons you had to deviate from the classic numbers. Because of this I'm not entirely sure how to establish the XP progression for the above 3 classes. Can you give me any suggestions? The subclasses usually require a bit more XP. Outside of any feedback you can give me my only ideas are as follows:

Simply have the Ranger follow the Fighter progression, Assassin the Thief progression, and Druid the Cleric progression. Or...

Each subclass uses the next tier progression so Assassin would use Cleric, Druid would use Fighter, and Ranger would use Magic User. Of course the actual HD for each would be different.

Thanks for any guidance.
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Re: Thought on expanding IF for my own games

Post Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:27 am

I'd bump up the costs based on the difference between 2nd level in the original source material for Assassin to Thief and Ranger to Fighter. Druid is tricky... if you're doing a real old-school druid with the whole dueling for levels thing, you'll need the lower progression from the old game, but if you're doing a BF-style Druid I'd just use the Cleric progression directly since they are more or less comparable.
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cbarchuk
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Re: Thought on expanding IF for my own games

Post Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:58 am

Solomoriah wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:27 am I'd bump up the costs based on the difference between 2nd level in the original source material for Assassin to Thief and Ranger to Fighter. Druid is tricky... if you're doing a real old-school druid with the whole dueling for levels thing, you'll need the lower progression from the old game, but if you're doing a BF-style Druid I'd just use the Cleric progression directly since they are more or less comparable.
XP difference to reach level 2 between an Assassin & Thief is 250xp. Thief reaches level 2 at 1,250xp and Assassin reaches level 2 at 1,500xp. Iron Falcon Thief reaches level 2 at 1,400xp. Using my amazing math skills that would mean Assassin reaches level 2 at 1,650xp. So let's see...

Assassin Level
1 0
2 1,650
3 3,300 (increase of x2)
4 6,600 (increase of x2)
5 13,200 (increase of x2)
6 26,400 (increase of x2)
7 58,000 (increase of x2 plus 5000)
8 116,000 (increase of x2)
9 190,000 (increase of 75,000)
10 380,000 (increase of x2)
11 600,000 (increase of 220,000)
12 820,000 (increase of 220,000)
13 1,040,000 (increase of 220,000)
14 1,260,000 (increase of 220,000)
15 1,480,000 (increase of 220,000)
16 1,700,000 (increase of 220,000)
17 1,920,000 (increase of 220,000)
18 2,140,000 (increase of 220,000)
19 2,360,000 (increase of 220,000)
20 2,581,200 (increase of 220,000)

Does that remotely seem right? The increase notes in parenthesis are from the Iron Falcon thief table. The confusion I have is when the increase isn't simply double. For example the Iron Falcon thief needs 27,500xp to level up from 6 (22,500) to 7 (50,000) which is more than double by an extra 5000xp. How would I calculate this for the Assassin? Would I simply double what he needs and then add an extra 5000xp on top of that as well? So 26,400x2 plus 5000 = 57,800. And the same goes for levels 11+. For the thief the amount needed is only 220,000. Is that the same for the Assassin?

It still seems to me that easiest thing to do is as follows:

Assassin follows the Cleric progression
Ranger follows the Magic-User progression
Druid follows the Fighter progression

This make them more or less similar to the original source material.
Last edited by cbarchuk on Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Thought on expanding IF for my own games

Post Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:27 pm

The progression is almost mathematical. At various points I added to the cost for a new level to "round off" the level progression. You can use the mathematical progression (doubling) with your new 2nd level figure, then apply the straight addition method after that. Adding the same as the thief seems fine to me. So if I did it, it would probably be:

Assassin Level
1 0
2 1650
3 3300
4 6600
5 13200
6 26500
7 55000
8 110000
9 220000
10 440000
11 660000
12 880000
etc.

Then again, I might tailor the numbers a bit more. They seem a little high, to be honest. 110,000 seems okay for 8th level, but the jump to 9th level is a bit steep comparatively.
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