Thought on expanding IF for my own games

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cbarchuk
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Thought on expanding IF for my own games

Post Tue Dec 29, 2020 3:45 pm

Chris I know you have zero plans of adding in advanced classes to IF. Some of my players are requesting to play some of these classes like the druid and ranger. So I was thinking of using them as they are listed in AD&D. What I wanted to ask you was do you think they would easily fit in within the scope of IF? Seems like I could drop them in without any issues. I may have to tweak a few things like HD and such. But I wanted to get your take first. Thanks for any guidance.
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Re: Thought on expanding IF for my own games

Post Tue Dec 29, 2020 5:09 pm

Maybe from Swords & Wizardry?
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merias
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Re: Thought on expanding IF for my own games

Post Wed Dec 30, 2020 10:15 am

Hi Chuck, you could pull them from the OD&D supplements (Assassin, Druid, Monk) and Strategic Review (Ranger, Illusionist). Those would be compatible with IF with no changes needed. Swords & Wizardry Complete is based on the same source material, so as noted above, that should work as well if you ignore the single save and use the five save categories. For to-hit tables, use the ones in IF, as they are different from the originals - just use the parent class chart in each case (use the Cleric table for Monk and Druid, etc.).
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cbarchuk
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Re: Thought on expanding IF for my own games

Post Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:39 am

merias wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 10:15 am Hi Chuck, you could pull them from the OD&D supplements (Assassin, Druid, Monk) and Strategic Review (Ranger, Illusionist). Those would be compatible with IF with no changes needed. Swords & Wizardry Complete is based on the same source material, so as noted above, that should work as well if you ignore the single save and use the five save categories. For to-hit tables, use the ones in IF, as they are different from the originals - just use the parent class chart in each case (use the Cleric table for Monk and Druid, etc.).
Yea I'm looking at S&W as well as the OD&D supplements with an effort to Iron 'Falconize' the classes. The Assassin for example in Blackmoor seems somewhat incomplete while the one in S&W seems closer to AD&D. I did find a version by John Rothwell in an old White Dwarf magazine that seemed to flesh out the class.

The Assassin
by John Rothwell
The Assassin class (introduced in Blackmoor) is suitable for a large campaign but it requires amplification for use as a player character in smaller adventures. These notes are designed to add the necessary information.
The prime requisites of the Assassin are strength, intelligence and dexterity, all of which must be 12 or more.
Level Experience Points
Apprentice 0
Killer 1500
Murderer 3000
Slayer 6000
Cutthroat 12000
Dacoit 24000
Thug 48000
Executioner 100000
Assassin 175000
Senior Assassin 275000
Expert Assassin 400000
Chief Assassin 550000
Prime Assassin 750000
Guildmaster 1000000
The Assassin is always neutral, human and male. He may only wear Leather armor (AC7). He may not knowingly use magical weaponry.
Assassins have the ability to climb walls (treat as Hobbit thief), move silently and hide in shadows treat as Hobbit thief plus 10%). Any attack he makes from the rear will increase his hit probability by 20% and he will do double damage. On a first melee round attack a throw of 19 or 20 (2nd level) indicates that he has slit the victims throat. At the 5th level this chance rises to 18, 19 or 20.
As in Blackmoor, Assassins may use disguise (including armor) at the referee’s discretion. However, if armor is used, it must be removed at the earliest opportunity. He may also carry a disguise kit.
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Dimirag
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Re: Thought on expanding IF for my own games

Post Thu Dec 31, 2020 2:41 pm

That killing special ability seems to subjective but I like that it revolves around a single die roll.

For new IF classes I would try to make them more like the presented Paladin. I know that making remaining Neutral or Chaotic seems less of a drawback that remaining Lawful... I would add something like a "class code" that the character must abide as to not lose they special abilities granted by the sub-class.
Sorry for any misspelling or writing error, I am not a native English speaker
Drawing portfolio: https://www.instagram.com/m.serena_dimirag/
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cbarchuk
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Re: Thought on expanding IF for my own games

Post Thu Dec 31, 2020 3:06 pm

Dimirag wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 2:41 pm That killing special ability seems to subjective but I like that it revolves around a single die roll.

For new IF classes I would try to make them more like the presented Paladin. I know that making remaining Neutral or Chaotic seems less of a drawback that remaining Lawful... I would add something like a "class code" that the character must abide as to not lose they special abilities granted by the sub-class.
Thanks for your thoughts Dimirag. I really like IF a lot and am wanting to use it as my OD&D game of choice but would like to add the expanded classes for folks that want to use them. I know I can do whatever I want but the feeling of creating the class where it 'feels right' is quite paralyzing for me. I agree about the Paladin. I love how its done and would like to see the other classes done in a similar fashion. So right now just simply grabbing the class as its presented in S&W isn't quite working for me.
Last edited by cbarchuk on Thu Dec 31, 2020 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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cbarchuk
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Re: Thought on expanding IF for my own games

Post Thu Dec 31, 2020 3:12 pm

That killing special ability seems to subjective but I like that it revolves around a single die roll.
The S&W Assassin simply gives an option to add the Assassin's level to the damage. I don't personally care for this as the thief still ends up with an overall higher backstab average because of faster leveling. In Blackmoor there is an Assassination chart similar to the one in Ad&d. Have never been a huge fan of it though. Obviously I'm trying to stick close to the original material. So its either Blackmoors version or Rothwell's version.

So here's my thought thus far:

The IF thief has a higher XP progression than the Assassin listed here. So I'm thinking of simply having the Assassin function as a thief for the purposes of Saving Throws and Attack Matrix. But having the XP progression be the same as the Cleric. Otherwise the rest will be as mention by Rothwell including disguise and poison use as mentioned in S&W.

Backstab will be the same as a thief. But at level 2, a natural roll of 19 or 20 will kill the target outright. At level 5, the chance rises to 18-20.
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Dimirag
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Re: Thought on expanding IF for my own games

Post Thu Dec 31, 2020 4:52 pm

I would do something like (trying to stay closed to IF's Paladin than to other source):

Standard Thief abilities
+ STR & INT scores of 12+
+ 20% to move silently & hide
+ Assassination skill
+ Code of Assassins

Assassination skill could be either:
A) A death attack whenever a backstab rolls high enough (nat 20-BS multiplier)
B) +Half level to damage before multiplication (at 2nd level they do 2d6+2, at 5th 3d6+6)
C) A faster BS multiplier, maybe level/3 or /2.
Sorry for any misspelling or writing error, I am not a native English speaker
Drawing portfolio: https://www.instagram.com/m.serena_dimirag/
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cbarchuk
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Re: Thought on expanding IF for my own games

Post Thu Dec 31, 2020 6:17 pm

Dimirag wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 4:52 pm I would do something like (trying to stay closed to IF's Paladin than to other source):

Standard Thief abilities
+ STR & INT scores of 12+
+ 20% to move silently & hide
+ Assassination skill
+ Code of Assassins

Assassination skill could be either:
A) A death attack whenever a backstab rolls high enough (nat 20-BS multiplier)
B) +Half level to damage before multiplication (at 2nd level they do 2d6+2, at 5th 3d6+6)
C) A faster BS multiplier, maybe level/3 or /2.
Great ideas Dimirag. Question: Does Standard Thief Abilities mean the Assassin would get all thief abilities? What is the Code of Assassins? Same thief XP progression? etc...

Assassination skill. I like option A. And if you didn't like the whole instant death thing than allowing maximum damage could be a nice alternative similar to a crit.
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Dimirag
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Re: Thought on expanding IF for my own games

Post Fri Jan 01, 2021 12:14 pm

Question: Does Standard Thief Abilities mean the Assassin would get all thief abilities? What is the Code of Assassins? Same thief XP progression? etc...
Unless I'm mistaken (Solo please correct me) an IF Paladin does not lose any of the fighters core abilities, and use the same XP progression, so to me, the Assassin should remain on the same line, a Thief with some extra abilities and hindrances

The Code of Assassins should be something like the Paladin's Code, made to put some restrictions, maybe assassins only killed targets and under specific situations, they are not murderers on the loose...
Assassination skill. I like option A. And if you didn't like the whole instant death thing than allowing maximum damage could be a nice alternative similar to a crit.
I don't mind the instant death thing, but I don't like some rules to be vague leading to abuse, doubt or discussion (a level 1 assassin with a lucky roll could kill almost anything that has a throat regardless of level, HD, HP, etc... that is why I linked it to backstab)
Sorry for any misspelling or writing error, I am not a native English speaker
Drawing portfolio: https://www.instagram.com/m.serena_dimirag/
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