Quiet around here.

[hjmartin70]

pick something to argue about....

[SmootRK]

pick something to argue about....

indeed...

How about lets talk about Race/Class restrictions? I don't really believe in them. Dwarves and Halflings are capable of magic, albeit perhaps not ideally suited for it. Clerics of all races. Thieves of all races. Fighters for all races. I just don't see a reason why one would put in such limits (other than some sense of tradition based solely upon older game editions). Norse Dwarves were very magical craftsmen. While halflings (hobbits to me) come from simple farming lands (Tolkein sources), I don't see a reason why they might not study magic as well.

Then we add in some of the Supplemental Classes and Races. Why not a Dwarven Paladin? Seems probable to me. When I have written up classes (such as Grave Master, Knight, my version of Ranger), I leave race considerations off. Why wouldn't an Elf be appropriate as a Ranger? Even A Dwarf might be drawn to the Mountain Forests and be a Ranger or Druid in such an environment.

Thoughts... clearly I am wacky to think this way.

[hjmartin70]

Oops, nothing to argue about there. I have always dreamed of playing a halfling magic user (Drago the diminutive), especially since I read An Unexpected Apprentice by Jody Lynn Nye. Give them a penalty to learn spells roll, perhaps but not forbid the class.
Common sense allows Clerics to any race, and Fighters as well.
I would think that race/class restrictions would have to be chosen to suit the campaign. Overall, I think their purpose is to encourage human PC's. I prefer human PC's myself, just because no one really bothers to play an elf as anything other than a pointy-eared human. Dwarfs, at least everyone gives a Scottish accent and hard-drinking personality.

Of course, if you are playing race as class games then a whole other set of considerations come into play. In most of them dwarfs and halflings get screwed while elves are massively overpowered.

[SmootRK]

I think race design should be based upon giving them some sort of benefit that makes them exemplary at certain roles, thus effectively skewing the racial norms towards certain classes, while not precluding them from any particular endeavor. Halflings are overall ideal for Thieves, but there could be the rare MU out there. Dwarves make great Fighters, and their steadfast dedication to a cause makes them ideal for a Paladin (albeit difficult to achieve with Charisma score). MU Dwarves are rare, but they are integral to crafting magical weapons, so they rarely adventure with the demands their society places upon them.

[SmootRK]

Race as Class is one of those wacky things I never understood once I was introduced to AD&D1. I started with Basic/Expert, so I dealt with it without knowing any better... but soon as AD&D books started to appear in my home, the Race as Class thing just looked insane.

It is a major reason why BFRPG wins over LL or even originals for me.

[Solomoriah]

I agree with your premise in general; however, the core game can't be written that way and be "right." Doesn't bother me a bit as a house rule.

[SmootRK]

Yes... I wasn't really intending some sort of change to 'core rules'. They work fine, and yes, it is easily waived as house rules. Just a remnant that remains from traditional treatments that are just weird to me.

[hjmartin70]

That is one of the best things about D&D style games in general, they are easily house-ruled.

[rredmond]

Seconded... I seem to remember a little adventure (more of a side-trek size thing) from one of my Greyhawk supplements where a Dryad's tree was cut down and made into a ship's figurehead sculpture. The inhabitants of the ship had thought their ship to be haunted (the hook for the PCs), when in fact the Dryad had turned mad (and was dying). I modified the adventure so that the players brought the sculpture to a fey wood, where the dryad had ultimately died but was eased by the presence of the other fey. Lots of cutesy fey thanking the characters (multiple girl players in this group, so it went over well)...

sorry to go back in time, but man this sounds familiar... was it a TSR thing, or a DCC?

[SmootRK]

I have not seen it in some time. Not even sure if I own the material still, but I think it was from a box set for City of Greyhawk (tsr era I think). These were printed on light cardstock (8.5x11), one little scenario per page (front and back). Some of the little side trek-like scenarios were pretty good.

If not, then I am probably just remembering something from an early Dungeon Magazine.