disrupting spell casting

[bigjawhite]

Friends:

Just bought two print copies of the core rule book from amazon (one is for my son) and am looking forward to DMing a game on Cinco de Mayo with my gaming group.

After reading the rules on casting and initiative, I am not certain how (or if) spells can be disrupted during combat. two questions:

1) are spell casters required to declare they are casting prior to rolling initiative?

2) are spells only disrupted when a caster is hit by an attacker who attacks on the same initiative score? What about hits against the caster that occur before he casts?

[Metroknight]

not sure on any official ruling but I do the following.

I usually require everyone to declare their actions prior the beginning of each round even though I require the Initiative roll only once at the beginning of the combat.

I usually picture the spell caster spending the round up to their initiative as doing their incantations aka their chanting, hand waving, etc... and any hit prior to that will disrupt their spell. Once their initiative is reach and the spell is cast it doesn't matter then unless it is a spell that has a duration and requires concentration to maintain it.

[dymondy2k]

This is under spells in the Rule Book...

"If a spellcaster is attacked on the Initiative number on which he or she is casting a spell, the spell is spoiled and lost."

So if they are hit before their round it shouldn't stop them from casting, but if them and the attacker share the same initiative the spell goes poof.. This actually really makes a good argument for doing per round initiative because if the caster gets one bad roll.. he is screwed the whole fight..

[Joe the Rat]

Ignoring initiative modifiers, you have a 1-in-6 chance of getting the same initiative with a single opponent - the odds go up as the number of enemies increase. In large melees, someone may be on beat with the wizard by coincidence.

However, where this really comes into play is held or contingent actions: "I'm going to hold my initiative to match the wizard (possibly with the: "and shoot him if he starts casting" contingency)." At which point, the wizard also has the option of "I'm going to delay my action until the enemy has finished..." which can lead to a stare-down if both are waiting on one another.

The short of it - a magic-user can be shut down by forcing them to delay actions until the round is over, or they take the risk of being hit. If nobody is keeping an eye on the magic-user, or if M-U gets higher initiative, he's free to act.

[SmootRK]

Ignoring initiative modifiers, you have a 1-in-6 chance of getting the same initiative with a single opponent - the odds go up as the number of enemies increase. In large melees, someone may be on beat with the wizard by coincidence.

However, where this really comes into play is held or contingent actions: "I'm going to hold my initiative to match the wizard (possibly with the: "and shoot him if he starts casting" contingency)." At which point, the wizard also has the option of "I'm going to delay my action until the enemy has finished..." which can lead to a stare-down if both are waiting on one another.

The short of it - a magic-user can be shut down by forcing them to delay actions until the round is over, or they take the risk of being hit. If nobody is keeping an eye on the magic-user, or if M-U gets higher initiative, he's free to act.

This is pretty much the answer. The MU character, once identified, is extremely susceptible because any remotely intelligent foes will single them out, being wary of their casting, and otherwise use the standard (delay) tactics to disrupt their casting. In a world where magic is fairly common, MU's often having a distinct "look", etc. the tactics would be rather standard as well. For these reasons, it is ideal for the MU to utilize measures such as invisibilty, delaying actions until they are sure they can cast safely, and otherwise being smart about their actions.

[dymondy2k]

I believe the term in dealing with a caster is 'Extreme Prejudice'

[bigjawhite]

Ignoring initiative modifiers, you have a 1-in-6 chance of getting the same initiative with a single opponent - the odds go up as the number of enemies increase. In large melees, someone may be on beat with the wizard by coincidence.

However, where this really comes into play is held or contingent actions: "I'm going to hold my initiative to match the wizard (possibly with the: "and shoot him if he starts casting" contingency)." At which point, the wizard also has the option of "I'm going to delay my action until the enemy has finished..." which can lead to a stare-down if both are waiting on one another.

The short of it - a magic-user can be shut down by forcing them to delay actions until the round is over, or they take the risk of being hit. If nobody is keeping an eye on the magic-user, or if M-U gets higher initiative, he's free to act.

this is my interpretation of the RAW, too. it differs from classic moldvay basic D&D and AD&D.

thanks everyone for your replies

[Solomoriah]

Joe the Rat has the right of it. But what the heck is RAW?

Also, as I play it, two spellcasters can't disrupt each other. Though I concede, there probably should be some way for it to work.

I'll have to think it over.

...

Okay, thought it over. The rule for disrupting a spellcaster should be:

In order to disrupt (and spoil) the casting of a spell, the spellcaster must be attacked just as he or she casts the spell. In general, disrupting a spell requires an attack delivered by a character or creature having a higher Initiative number; the attack must be delayed (i.e. the attacker's action must be held) until the same Initiative number as the caster. Attackers having the same or lower Initiative number as the caster cannot interrupt the spell casting, though if the attacker acts normally on the same Initiative number as the caster, each may affect the other just as with two normal combatants acting on the same Initiative. Any melee attack, even a failed attack, will disrupt spell casting, but only a successful missile weapon attack may do so.

Whew. A bit longer than I would have liked, but it expresses the core idea cleanly enough.

And... If you think a spell caster should not be affected by a failed melee attack, I challenge you to recite poetry while a large, angry fellow swings a long blade at you.

[LibraryLass]

RAW=Rules as Written, as distinct from RAI, Rules as Intended/Implied

[Joe the Rat]

RAW vs. RAI (when RAI can even be established) is an endless source of humor and hijinks in the higher-numbered editions.