Two weapon fighting

[Aplus]

I like allowing two attacks, but with d16s instead of a d20. Too many modifiers make my eyes bug out.

[SmootRK]

I like allowing two attacks, but with d16s instead of a d20. Too many modifiers make my eyes bug out.

That is something I have not heard of before. If only I had a d16 (yet I know I can do this sort of roll with d8 and a secondary die roll for "as-is" or +8 determination).

[Hywaywolf]

Do you allow critical hits if a 16 is rolled? Is a 16 an automatic hit?

[Aplus]

Do you allow critical hits if a 16 is rolled?

Main hand only crits on a 16. Can fumble with either. (Of course it's ultimately up to the GM how they want to handle it)

Is a 16 an automatic hit?

No.

Of course you could add as much or as little complexity to this as you want. DEX requirement, light armor requirement, weapon size requirement, and so forth. It is effectively a -2 to each attack in terms of average results, but the fact that a 16 isn't an automatic hit and you can fumble a lot more puts a bit of a wrinkle in the whole thing.

[Hywaywolf]

So a 3rd level fighter with normal strength or even a +1 strength bonus is fighting against something with an AC 20, that fighter can never hit them if duel wielding?

[Aplus]

So a 3rd level fighter with normal strength or even a +1 strength bonus is fighting against something with an AC 20, that fighter can never hit them if duel wielding?

That's how I run it. Although I can't think of a time I ever pitted some 3rd level PCs against something with AC 20. Of course if you wanted to make a natural 16 be an automatic hit in your game, you could. Personally I don't think it's a big deal. All they'd have to do is opt to focus their efforts on a single main hand attack and use a d20.

[Joe the Rat]

That would encourage two-weapon fighting as a mook-mowing tactic, switching to strike-and-parry against harder targets.
Making a 16 auto-hit would make this a better choice against impossible AC (relying on luck) - if you'd need a 20 to hit normally, you go from 1/20 to two tries at 1/16 (5% to 12%, roughly).

[SmootRK]

Math is great, isn't it?

I would not make a 16 do any auto hits. Such a die reduction would make any such 'auto hits' impossible. One cannot roll a natural 20 if their die only goes up to 16. The rule does not state if you get max roll on your die... it says natural twenty.

[Maliki]

I like allowing two attacks, but with d16s instead of a d20. Too many modifiers make my eyes bug out.

I like this idea, (I don't have d16's so it's not really an option for me, but a good idea nevertheless.)

[SmootRK]

So here is my new take on the Two Weapon rules... commentary?

Two-Weapon or Dual-Weapon Style
When a combatant uses an off hand weapon, he may roll a second attack if the first attack strikes. The primary hand weapon is penalized -2 to hit and the second attack roll (assuming the first attack is successful) is penalized -4 but these penalties are offset by the character's Dexterity bonus down to zero penalty (never becoming a positive bonus). This is based upon the main weapon being medium-sized and a small off-hand weapon such as Longsword & Dagger. Of course, the size requirements are relative, so small characters are more limited and larger sized characters may use larger weapons.

If both such weapons are small, such as a short sword and dagger, then the penalty is reduced by 1 (to a -3 penalty). If one chooses to dual wield with 2 medium-sized weapons such as 2 battle axes or longsword and battle axe (or any such combination), then the penalty is increased to -5.

Alternatively, the off-hand weapon may be utilized defensively to increase Armor Class by 1 (or more if the off hand weapon is magical), but only against one opponent directly facing or engaged with the dual-wielder. This is different from Shields which affect AC uniformly against all facing opponents, not just one such opponent.
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The differences from Solo's original rule in the combat options supplement is the second strike only happens if the first is successful, so the penalty is tweaked a little lower (-4 instead of -5), and some variability with the penalty due to weapon choices. Also added in the defensive use feature, pretty much the same.

I would like to somehow factor in that Fighters would be better at this than simply characters with Dex bonuses, but need to think on it more. But then again, Fighters theoretically hit more often because of more Attack Bonus (with the first weapon), so they are more likely to get the second swipe. Thoughts?