BFRPG Kickstarter

[Hywaywolf]

If we were going to make a boxset using kickstarter, then you would already have a minimum amount of books you would need to run. Then you decide how many you can print with the money you have and do an order from a printer for 100 books, and order 100 boxes with color print on them, etc. and then eaither have them all shipped to you or to some marketing/distributing company that will handle the sales.

[SmootRK]

The Star Frontiers game had a nice minimalistic combination mini-ruleset/adventure scenario that was used to speed individuals into the actual 'playing of the game' within moments... and it only took up a few pages. I would suggest emulating that little portion.

Alas, the little intro thing was not included in the Remastered Star Frontiers document, so I am taking a look to see if it exists elsewhere in its original form. [edit] sent a message out to Bill Logan (cleancutrogue) and/or Larry Moore (woot) to inquire. If it is in pdf or remastered somewhere, they will point me to it... (I used to be a regular contributor of the StarFrontiersman Webzine (early editions anyhow), but I have not done much there in a while).

[Solomoriah]

If we were going to make a boxset using kickstarter, then you would already have a minimum amount of books you would need to run. Then you decide how many you can print with the money you have and do an order from a printer for 100 books, and order 100 boxes with color print on them, etc. and then eaither have them all shipped to you or to some marketing/distributing company that will handle the sales.

Yeah, not doing that. Anything that's more work than POD is, well, work. This is my hobby... don't want to mix accounting, distribution, etc. with it.

[Hywaywolf]

But others might want to make the effort. I think that was the gist of either this thread or a different one. What happens to BFRPG when you and/or smoot are no longer involved. I don't know how many people actually play BFRPG or how many actual books have been sold to determine how much a kickstarter could bring in, but lets say if a Kickstarter raised $5000. How many box sets could be created and distributed not just to the people who kicked in, but if enough was left over there could be some put in game stores on speculation of them selling. I have never done a kickstart or really followed one from start to finish, and I am sure that many probably never reach the goal and thus noone gets their credit card debited. But if the goal was reached and the real money made available, think how much could be accomplished with a single large order.


Edit:
I am actually just brainstorming. I don't even know if anyone would want a box set lol. I personally like downloading a pdf and playing from it and thats what I do whenever I join any non-bfrpg. I've bought at least 4 copies of BFRPG from lulu because its the only game I want to play.

[Solomoriah]

Here's the sales figures as of about two weeks back:

Basic Fantasy RPG Core Rules 2E (perfect bound) -- Print 255
Basic Fantasy RPG Core Rules 2E (coil bound) -- Print 137
Basic Fantasy RPG Core Rules 2E (hardback) -- Hardcover Print 136
Basic Fantasy Role-Playing Game (Coil Bound) -- Print 48
Basic Fantasy Role-Playing Game (Perfect Bound) -- Print 46
Basic Fantasy Role-Playing Game -- Hardcover Print 31

I believe that puts the total Core Rules sales at 653. That's total over several years. Release 64 was the first print release; I can't find where I announced actual print availability, but it had to be after R64 came out in November 2007, so that's just under five years of print availability. Call it around 130 copies per year.

Add to that the fact that not all those copies are being played. This is a given with any game, of course.

The total number of downloads of the core rules since the first release is somewhere above 50,000. The count on the downloads page is low, due to a loss of statistics when I changed hosting providers; I have no idea how low. unfortunately. But it's hard to know how many of those downloads are repeats, that is, someone who downloaded each new release as it came out (thus meaning that several downloads only represent one potential user) nor how many downloads were looked at and thrown in the Recycle Bin (thus being a download count that does not represent a user).

This is with no "marketing" as such, other than basic word-of-mouth (if that expression still means anything). I have no idea how advertising would affect the sales figures, as I have neither budget for, nor interest in, convincing people to buy the game.

[xav++]

Well I'd buy the box set! Also I'll contributing more and more. Solo I completely understand where you're coming from. This isn't something that just morphs every so often on a whim.

[Hywaywolf]

Well, one of the things I like best about BFRPG after how good it is and the material created for it is that the effort has gone into making it playable rather than marketable.

[billiambabble]

Just been reading through all of this. Lots of interesting points and, god it would be nice if Lulu did boxes (I'm pretty sure Gamecrafter dont make them in the right shape or size to please the OSR nostalgia packaging junkies). I think its really important that you keep things simple as a community -it's a non-profit- free downloads, with a little extra for printed copies. Kickstarters rely on a desperate drive to fund something important that might otherwise vanish. It's really nice to come to a place where there is no marketting, where the writers and artists have contributed for free and there's a massive resource, legacy, of free downloads - and I say this as a bit of a failed capitalist. I steal links and attach affiliate codes, I'd sell my next idea for 50p! But I also think Kickstarters are not appropriate for single print POD products. The ruleset is fine. I'm guessing that its really important that kickstarters are discussed at a time when every publisher is having a go. But I think Basic Fantasy should keep it simple and avoid the deadline based faux enthusiasm of the KS. Yes, pay for materials, but there are straightforward, more civilised ways of doing that.
Hold your heads up high and rise above the mental din created by crowd-funding. It's all here, to use, to play, no pressure, no sales pitch, no pledge guilt.

[SmootRK]

Yes... I think this Kickstarter-rage has its merits, but it seems like the sort of thing that is just fashionable to do right now. I think the hub-bub of this will even out at some point soon.

[Hywaywolf]

I don't see why you can't use kickstarter for small projects. The number one advantage I see is that a developer doesn't need to take people on their word that they will buy something if he develops and prints it out. They have already committed their credit card to be charged if the kickstarter meets its goal. Then the developer has the money up front to do a large print run and, if they are of the mind to, to send it out to each person who ordered individually. I can guarantee you that ordering 100 books at one time, from lulu if you must, but from a real print company is better, and then handling the shipping yourself would be significantly cheaper than 100 people buying a single copy each from Lulu and paying the single book price along with the single book shipping price. probably so much cheaper that the person doing the distributing could keep enough cash to make it worth his time and to pay toward upkeep of the BFRPG website.
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