Spell Casting and Exhaustion

[MedievalMan]

Just doing a little thought experiment and thought I would share. Inspired by a similar idea on Akratic Wizardry.

Whenever Magic-Users cast spells they suffer exhaustion damage equal to one hit point plus an additional hit point per level of the spell cast. A Magic-User reduced to 0 hit points in this fashion is rendered unconscious for 8 hours.

I am thinking about possibly introducing some sort of duel hit point system. Something like morale and stamina in which case morale would tie into my other idea of verbal combat.

So anyone interested in this at all? Any sort of suggestions? Anything at all would be appreciated.

[SmootRK]

OK, here is an idea for Spells coupled with Fatigue:

Characters have a Pool of Spell points equal to their Prime Requisite Bonus (spell associated Ability) plus two per level of the character. Spell Levels are limited, so that 2nd level spells are able to be cast at 3rd level, 3rd level spells at 5th level, 4th level spells at 7th level, 5th level spells at 9th level, and 6th level spells at 11th.
For instance, a 5th level MU with 13 INT would have 11 total Spell Points, and the character would be able to cast up to 3rd level spells.

Each casting of a Spell deducts the spell level from this pool, and also applies a Fatigue penalty of -2 to all ability checks, attacks/damage, and character cannot run, etc. Casting subsequent spells applies additional penalties (cumulative).

* The Fatigue penalties are removed at 1 point of penalty per 10 minutes of rest/meditation. Much of this can be restored while the party members search about the area after an encounter.
* The Spell Points are restored at the rate of 1 point per hour of rest, or completely restored after full rest period, such as a night of sleep. Some restoration of points can be done at same time as Fatigue are restored.

This method should keep spell casters from unloading too many spells at one time (else suffer substantial fatigue), but also allows for quicker restoration of points, so that the caster can do more at each encounter (even at lowest levels).

The idea lends itself to other magics that help to restore fatigue quickly, perhaps Clerics have a spell to "Refresh" another being (instantly removing fatigue up to 1 point of penalty per level). Perhaps Bards have a Bard Song that soothes and doubles rate of Fatigue restoration.

I think this sort of Spell Point option would work well combined with a Arcane Bolt (as discussed elsewhere) that the caster can do without taking on Fatigue effects, or Cantrips/Orisons which do not produce fatigue (being zero level, they can be cast without losing spell points either).

eh? Something you might be able to work with?

[MedievalMan]

Good ideas. I can definitely use some of those. Thanks Smoot!

I would respond more but I need time to think of a better response.

[Dimirag]

If you want to replace the spell slot system with a Fatigue one you could relate the level of the spell directly to the magic/miracle/spell points of the caster, maybe 1pt per level but a character can't put more than half level/half max Spell Points/half actual spell points/etc. (this can make different caster types to work, well, different).
The amount of of Spell Points earned can also vary from class to class "lesser" spellcasters (bard) could earn half the normal SP amount, while "half/partial" (paladin) spellcaster could earn normal or even half the amount starting at higher levels.

[MedievalMan]

The original idea was too keep spell slots but add on the exhaustion price. That way you wouldn't have to worry about a whole new subsystem or spell points and so on.

[Dimirag]

OK, how about something like:
Winded: No strenuous movement (run, climb, swim, etc) + 2pt penalty on die rolls.
Fatigued: As above plus: 1/2 normal movement + 3pts penalty (5pts total).
Exhausted: As above + No movement nor other harsh activities.

Each spell has a related fatigue effect base on its spell level:
1st: no effect
2-3: Winded
4-5: Fatigued
6-7: Exhausted
or 1-2/3-4-5/6-7 or as you see fit.

Each effect last for an hour/10minutes/etc, after that time it downgrades by one type: Exhausted -> Fatigued -> Winded.
If the MU uses a spell of higher level the status reset to the new one, it its of the same type it increases by one level, otherwise there is no change.

A Fatigued MU uses a spell again:
Spell effect----------New Status
Winded---------------Fatigued
Fatigued--------------Exhausted
Exhausted------------Exhausted

Or more easily: If the spell is of equal or lower effect type then the duration of the type is increased by the standard amount.
EX: A MU uses 3 Lvl3 spell: He is winded for 3hs or 30 minutes/etc.
If he uses a greater level spell he changes his condition but the duration is the greater of the old one or the new one.

[SmootRK]

OK, here is an idea for Spells coupled with Fatigue:

Characters have a Pool of Spell points equal to their Prime Requisite Bonus (spell associated Ability) plus two per level of the character. Spell Levels are limited, so that 2nd level spells are able to be cast at 3rd level, 3rd level spells at 5th level, 4th level spells at 7th level, 5th level spells at 9th level, and 6th level spells at 11th.
For instance, a 5th level MU with 13 INT would have 11 total Spell Points, and the character would be able to cast up to 3rd level spells.

Each casting of a Spell deducts the spell level from this pool, and also applies a Fatigue penalty of -2 to all ability checks, attacks/damage, and character cannot run, etc. Casting subsequent spells applies additional penalties (cumulative).

* The Fatigue penalties are removed at 1 point of penalty per 10 minutes of rest/meditation. Much of this can be restored while the party members search about the area after an encounter.
* The Spell Points are restored at the rate of 1 point per hour of rest, or completely restored after full rest period, such as a night of sleep. Some restoration of points can be done at same time as Fatigue are restored.

This method should keep spell casters from unloading too many spells at one time (else suffer substantial fatigue), but also allows for quicker restoration of points, so that the caster can do more at each encounter (even at lowest levels).

The idea lends itself to other magics that help to restore fatigue quickly, perhaps Clerics have a spell to "Refresh" another being (instantly removing fatigue up to 1 point of penalty per level). Perhaps Bards have a Bard Song that soothes and doubles rate of Fatigue restoration.

I think this sort of Spell Point option would work well combined with a Arcane Bolt (as discussed elsewhere) that the caster can do without taking on Fatigue effects, or Cantrips/Orisons which do not produce fatigue (being zero level, they can be cast without losing spell points either).

eh? Something you might be able to work with?

I think I am so impressed with what I threw together here (patting myself on my back) that if I make Sorcerers an option (not Fey-Mage) this will be incorporated into how they work instead of how they are presented currently.

Almost an accident... just slapped down ideas as they came to me (although some similar thinking was made when I was writing the Confessor quasi-class).

[MedievalMan]

Little much for me. But these suggestions have spurred my own ideas regarding stamina and wounds, and how they could possibly work. So thanks for all the suggestions.

[MedievalMan]

Alright here is what I came up. I am not entirely happy with it but for a proof of concept it isn't bad. Any suggestions or ideas would be appreciated.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B2OIiZb ... l5YkE/edit

[Dimirag]

It sounds ok, it reminds me of some rules I've read on some d20-ish game/optional rules or from some ad&d book.

I know Mastercraft system use a hp/wounds distinction.
If you feel that the spellcasters needs more stamina but you don't want to give them more points (which will make them similar to fighters) you can give them some extra points to "burn" instead of using their stamina.
Option: Extra points:
Attribute value + level
Attribute mod + level mod
Any combo of the above
(example: a 5lvl mu with int +2 has 7 extra points)

Option: Spell cost:
1-At least 1 stamina point must be use to paid the spell
2-The Stamina/extra pont cost is determined by spell level

Using stamina allows for the introduction or change of some special abilities:
-Extra attack
-Extra damage
-Turning undead
-Berserking
-Spell defense
-Cleave and other "feat" like moves
Simply put the character "pays" with stamina the special effect he wants to do.

If you want a cross between fast and slow healing you can limit the max SP based on current max Wounds by the same amount (a wounded character will have less Stamina and will become fatigued or injured more faster than an unwounded one).