Basic Fantasy RPG Forums

Steveman wrote:I would allow two rolls, because I feel when its not a normal weapon attack, having the players interact with the trap on a dice-level engages the player better.

If I roll an attack first, to see if the trap "comes close" to hitting... well, honestly, that nerfs the trap.

An average starting fighter might have AC 15 or 16; let's call it a 25% chance to be hit. If he also gets a saving throw, say vs. Death Ray (a common choice for a physical trap), he has a 45% chance to save. This reduces his overall chance of being hurt to 55% of 25%, or just 13.75%.

Hardly worth being scared of.

So let's imagine a nasty trap, with an Attack Bonus of +6. Against our beginner fighter, there is now a 55% chance he'll be hit... but his 45% chance to save means that he still has just a 30.25% chance to be hurt.

Ignoring my mechanical preference for a single determining roll, which I would likely be a stickler about on any official supplement... it's just too nice to the players.

And turn it around backwards. Suppose your players set a trap for a monster party... they're going to howl in frustration as the trap fails to impress more than a handful of the monsters.

It's true, you could use a harder saving throw, or a higher attack bonus, or both... but using both is an unnecessary complexity. Frankly, when you talk about engaging your players, only a saving throw does that; a roll to hit made by the GM is not much engagement at all. For this reason, I prefer to use saving throws for most traps, only using attack rolls for those things that behave like normal weapons.

A single spear or crossbow? Roll to hit.

A volley of darts? Saving throw.

The ceiling falls on all within a square? Saving throw.

An axe swings down from the ceiling? Roll to hit.

Joe the Rat wrote:My inclination is to put the dice in the players hands as much as possible.

My personal preference is the opposite. Role before roll. Dice are used only if the situation is not clear. Players who stroll through corridors without care will not get saving throws, a ten foot pole and severe paranoia means many traps will be found without the need of a dice roll.

Also it may be worth looking at the OGL content from the Netbook of traps

I should have been clearer - if a situation calls for a die roll, and I have a choice between me making a roll, or the player making a roll, I would prefer the players roll. The only exception there is where the result is uncertain to the player.

Joe the Rat wrote:I should have been clearer - if a situation calls for a die roll, and I have a choice between me making a roll, or the player making a roll, I would prefer the players roll. The only exception there is where the result is uncertain to the player.

That's the way I thought you meant... when situation calls for it, allow players to be active with the actual die roll whenever possible. Throwing the dice is exciting for them!!

SmootRK wrote:

Joe the Rat wrote:I should have been clearer - if a situation calls for a die roll, and I have a choice between me making a roll, or the player making a roll, I would prefer the players roll. The only exception there is where the result is uncertain to the player.

That's the way I thought you meant... when situation calls for it, allow players to be active with the actual die roll whenever possible. Throwing the dice is exciting for them!!

and it puts their life in their hands... You can't get mad at the DM if you roll a 3!