Sleep Spell and Ogres

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Willowisp
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Sleep Spell and Ogres

Post by Willowisp »

I noticed an oddity in the rules the other day: the Sleep spell is said to affect creatures up to 4 HD. In Holmes, B/X and the RC, the Sleep spell is said to affect creatures up to 4+1 HD; the upside of this is it always kind of served as an "escape ogres free" card for low level adventurers, and players tended to act accordingly. But here in BFR, the +1 is missing.....

Do I take this as an intentional beefing up of the threat of ogres, or would the Sleep spell work on them in BFR btb?
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Boggo
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Re: Sleep Spell and Ogres

Post by Boggo »

Sleep would not work on an ogre in BFRPG, I wasn't there but I would imagine that's deliberate
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Solomoriah
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Re: Sleep Spell and Ogres

Post by Solomoriah »

It was an intentional decision, but I may be revising it in 4thed.
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Boggo
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Re: Sleep Spell and Ogres

Post by Boggo »

Solomoriah wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 9:41 am It was an intentional decision, but I may be revising it in 4thed.
4+1 HD was right there from the beginning, the white books even before the Monochrome Chicken had it, and for it to be such an odd number it was obviously targeting a specific 4+1 HD foe... as there was a grand total of 1 4HD+1 monster in that edition
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Solomoriah
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Re: Sleep Spell and Ogres

Post by Solomoriah »

I know that, Boggo. It was an intentional decision by me to change it that way.
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Boggo
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Re: Sleep Spell and Ogres

Post by Boggo »

Solomoriah wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 12:22 pm I know that, Boggo. It was an intentional decision by me to change it that way.
Yeah I got that, I was more expressing wonder, I never realised the spell was written that way for 44 years I've only ever seen Sleep used as a sweep up the trash spell and never EVER had anyone ever consider using it on an Ogre and was stunned that the original spell was obviously written for exactly that. I worded it badly probably, but it was just "WOW I never knew that and it never occurred to me it was even a thing"

Honestly I think leaving the cap at 4hd seems reasonable to me, the ogre exception smacks of metagaming
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Ninja Bear
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Re: Sleep Spell and Ogres

Post by Ninja Bear »

I always thought it was odd that there is a limit HD limit on the sleep spell. So 4D is knocked out but 4D+1 isn’t affected and its no matter how powerful the M-U is. I could see that the HD goes up per level of M-U (or levels). And or the more powerful ones get a Saving Throw vs Spell. iirc Sleep is automatic? Just my thoughts.
Rustic313
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Re: Sleep Spell and Ogres

Post by Rustic313 »

Ninja Bear wrote: Sat Jan 21, 2023 5:03 am I always thought it was odd that there is a limit HD limit on the sleep spell. So 4D is knocked out but 4D+1 isn’t affected and its no matter how powerful the M-U is. I could see that the HD goes up per level of M-U (or levels). And or the more powerful ones get a Saving Throw vs Spell. iirc Sleep is automatic? Just my thoughts.
The more powerful ones get Hold Monster. :twisted:

I am playing B2 now with my players, this thread has been relevant to our interests!
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Boggo
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Re: Sleep Spell and Ogres

Post by Boggo »

Rustic313 wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 10:35 am
Ninja Bear wrote: Sat Jan 21, 2023 5:03 am I always thought it was odd that there is a limit HD limit on the sleep spell. So 4D is knocked out but 4D+1 isn’t affected and its no matter how powerful the M-U is. I could see that the HD goes up per level of M-U (or levels). And or the more powerful ones get a Saving Throw vs Spell. iirc Sleep is automatic? Just my thoughts.
The more powerful ones get Hold Monster. :twisted:

I am playing B2 now with my players, this thread has been relevant to our interests!
Yup, sleeps always been a sweep up as many trash monsters as possible in one go spell in games I've been in
No matter where you go...there you are
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