Basic Fantasy RPG Forums

Smoot,
I get the reasoning and goal you are shooting for, to try and keep things clearly separated...

However, the easiest way I have always found to deal with this dilemma with my groups and family playing is to simply allow all the pre-exsiting deities as listed in the books, supplements, etc, and leave everything just he way it is, but preface all of it with the modifier that all the "gods" and such are still subservient to an even higher authority, and they are little more than very advanced, glorified characters themselves. They are all created beings who were given free will to attain their place in the world and what they did with their power was their choice and they are given the freedom to affect things on the world as they see fit. Sometimes this means that they are at war with each other and this drags the PCs into it. After all, this conceptual idea is not much different than the numerous saints and angels venerated by the catholic faith.

When a cleric performs certain spells or actions (like turning), he is beseeching his mentor, or sponsor, or advocate, for additional power to complete the desired action. After all, in my view, the act of turning any undead is not necessarily the power of the deity being invoked, but the power of faith of the individual doing the turning. All the other spells are no different from magic-user spells: access to the magical forces of the world, no different than gravity or electricity, and so forth.

But yes, i can see how removing deities altogether is one way to accomplish your goal. Not sure I could play that way, as clerics are my favorite class in fantasy rpgs, really, any character whose faith is integral to their being is what I prefer. I rarely play a character who lacks that angle, its just too hard to divorce who *I* am in real life so far from a character that I play; I have to have something in me that connects directly to the character in order to bring it to life. Even "evil" characters I played or portrayed had an intense faith in *something* that helped keep them true to who they were and their ultimate goals.

You've probably got this sorted out but check this blog:

http://deltasdnd.blogspot.com/p/primary ... rules.html
The guy removed clerics from his campaign too. (Scroll down to near the bottom.) He also links to other posts where he discusses the 'cleric problem' in more detail.

jcm wrote:You've probably got this sorted out but check this blog:

http://deltasdnd.blogspot.com/p/primary ... rules.html
The guy removed clerics from his campaign too. (Scroll down to near the bottom.) He also links to other posts where he discusses the 'cleric problem' in more detail.

He about sums up the idea. I think the only real difference I would have in mind is to fold in some of the spells from cleric list into the MU.

FYI, I have not actually done this. Seems that by the time I get around around to this, everyone is going to be grown up and ready for such concepts! lol

I'm facing the same dilemma as you, first game session this weekend with family. I don't know how they'd handle polytheism and strange gods and goddesses. As a family we love reading books, and that includes fantasy and mythology so the idea of different gods isn't alien. Pretending to worship them might be a whole other issue however.

Huh, makes good sense, fits the themes we see in literature. Adding healing spells in to the potential spell list would still be a reasonable step here as well, though it may have its own issues.


This has gone on a few pages, and I don't remember if this has come up before:

Do clerics actually have to "worship" their deities? What if, instead of being supplicant, the cleric is strictly an agent - a mortal granted power from a more powerful being or group, acting (usually) on their behalf? Each day, the cleric communes with the boss (or meditates, or says their oath), gets his/her powers refreshed, and heads out to do their thing - or the thing of his/her benefactor. All of the magic, undead rebuking, etc., is merely the act of channeling the others power. Holy symbols are a focus for your power. It's your colored light source themed jewelry, external battery optional.

Up side: Now you can have your clerics powered by dark entities, bear the power and position of Knight of a fey court, or be working for a clean-shaven, wing-helmeted Thor (or his green-garbed half-brother with matching boots, Loki), with nary a difference or added justification. Well, besides the whole "Why doth my symbol turn undead" and "Why do I have to bludgeon everything" issues. But that's a whole other kettle of kirby dots.

I am in a similar boat, very religious famliy, as am I. The whole gods,demons and magic stuff simply will not fly in my household, I love playing, but, I've learn to pick my battles, so in the games with the kids, there are no gods or demons instead they are extradimisional beings, all "magical" anything is psionic instead, (this one is my favorite) undead are infected with telekinetic hive mind fungus, that lives inside of bones./shrug