Removal of Deities (and Clerics) in our game

[SmootRK]

The idea is not to somehow sanitize religion for the game (or somehow make it mesh with our Faith), but to remove religion altogether. Practicing or encouraging 'other religions' is a No No, just as twisting the concepts of Christianity/Catholicism would be a No No. I'd rather there just not be religion to explain at this particular time, again, I will move back to normal games once mature realizations of 'this is just a game' develop.... a clean break from religion in general. I just want to preserve some aspects of mechanics where I can... some healing magic mechanic should be around (without divine source), all the while with minimal fundamental changes to the overall game. I don't want to re-write modules for this change, only to erase clerics where I can.

But I appreciate all the ideas there. It is tough when the kids are going to classes on one day in preparation for their first Communion (among other landmark events), and having game day on another day.

[Dimirag]

Ok, is more a removal of religions and religion related things, so, how about using MU's with the clerics list as healing/suppor/white specialist? (removing any spell with a "religious feeling")

[SmootRK]

Ok, is more a removal of religions and religion related things, so, how about using MU's with the clerics list as healing/suppor/white specialist? (removing any spell with a "religious feeling")

yes, I think that is the general direction I am heading, and a Brown or Green Mage division to incorporate druid-ish/fey-style magic.

[Joe the Rat]

Turning (or rebuking) could be left as an at-will power for the white mages - it might be fair trade for their spell selection. One of the ideas from Sword and Board was to make turning a spell, rather than a straight ability.

[SmootRK]

Turning (or rebuking) could be left as an at-will power for the white mages - it might be fair trade for their spell selection. One of the ideas from Sword and Board was to make turning a spell, rather than a straight ability.

.. or undead get a new level of scariness without that power available.

[Joe the Rat]

I've been mulling this over a bit more, and I think it might be worthwhile to add a Battle-Mage type class to fit the old Cleric combat niche. I think I'd mentioned it before, but I've put some more thought into how to work it.

Looking at the cleric --> priest conversion to get the white mage, reversing the process for other flavors of magic-user to give you other hybrids. Cleric HD, hit tables, and spell progression, but probably closer to Fighter experience tables. Use the druid and cleric weapon/armor limitations as guidelines (better armor allowances = more limited weapon selections). I think a good rule on this might be no shields - they need to be able to readily free a hand for casting. The armor variants from Magic-Users options might be appropriate as well - higher cost for something they can properly cast in. The cleric spell progression effectively keeps them a level behind a "straight" version of the class - if this is not sufficiently balancing, further adjustments may be needed. The lack of spells at first level means that 0-level spells may be needed to keep the "wizard" flavor, until they've developed enough skill to hold a spell ready.

Obviously, this would have to fit the feel of your setting. If wizards aren't given to militant practices, it wouldn't fit terribly well. Even then, it may not be a universal thing - perhaps only certain flavors will train this sort of battlecaster. (White mages to better fit the philosophy of protection, pyromancers with scimitars throwing around fire, necromancers because skull-themed plate mail is awesome, etc.)

[SmootRK]

I am thinking of trying to incorporate ideas from Divine Champions, specifically the magic affinity variety to make a lightly-magically empowered warrior type. Perhaps making the idea into a quasi-class so that it would be appropriate to layer it upon Thief, Fighter, or even Magic-User themselves (and clerics, though this thread is about removing them), so long as I can make their magical powers not conflict directly with the standard spells of the MU class... much like the Holy quasi-class can layer upon a cleric without any real conflict.

[Hartygan]

So how about something like combine both lists and then split them into
White Mage - all party buffs, protection froms, removal spells, speak with dead, and of course heal spells. Basically anything that does not hurt.
Red Mage - everything that goes bang and does damage, this includes reverse heals or cause damage spells.
Brown Mage - all plant, animal, insects and weather spells.

[SmootRK]

So how about something like combine both lists and then split them into
White Mage - all party buffs, protection froms, removal spells, speak with dead, and of course heal spells. Basically anything that does not hurt.
Red Mage - everything that goes bang and does damage, this includes reverse heals or cause damage spells.
Brown Mage - all plant, animal, insects and weather spells.

This is about the idea, but slightly different.
White (add heals, protections)
Grey (about normal vanilla sort of MU)
Black (bad guy MU, necromancer and evil-ish spells, perhaps add more damaging stuff)
I could perhaps consider a Red Mage division, but I think this is covered in the grey mage.

and I have been thinking about the Nature Mage. 2 different inclinations here (but the same mechanically).
First is a Brown Mage, whom uses knowledge of nature to benefit himself or civilization. Perhaps consider this an exploiter of nature, but that has a negative connotation. Not really evil (although some might be), just smart in the ways of natural resources... works to enhance farmers and agriculture, animal husbandry, etc.
Second is a Green Mage, whom is more like a preserver/protector of nature. Consider them like eco-terrorist mentality, greenpeace types. Has a mind to protect nature from civilization.

Again these green or brown Nature Mages are the same mechanically, but very different in the application of their craft. A Brown Mage might be out in the field to assist and guide a group of Lumberjacks to maximize production, while a Green Mage would be out there to halt such deforestation.

[Joe the Rat]

You could make the Brown/Green division a schism in the Nature college - common teachings and skills divided by ideology. Before the falling out, they were the Jade Wizards or some such.