Basic Fantasy RPG Forums

GrimlinJoe wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 1:10 pm You summed it up perfectly for my favorite as well. Gotta love that simplicity yet ferocity of the Fighter.

That and the feel, no two fighters are alike.

elmarcotote123 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 2:17 pm

GrimlinJoe wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 1:10 pm You summed it up perfectly for my favorite as well. Gotta love that simplicity yet ferocity of the Fighter.

That and the feel, no two fighters are alike.

Exactly! Every players personality brings a different aspect to each fighter.

elmarcotote123 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 2:14 pm

chiisu81 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:33 am Probably thief; I like sneaking around

As a DM I just love it when my Thief players improvise, that Thief Bonus (what I'm using instead of percentiles) really motivates them into doing crazy stuff.

Can you tell us about this Thief Bonus you are using instead of percentiles?

Ironwolf wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 5:33 pm

elmarcotote123 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 2:14 pm

chiisu81 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:33 am Probably thief; I like sneaking around

As a DM I just love it when my Thief players improvise, that Thief Bonus (what I'm using instead of percentiles) really motivates them into doing crazy stuff.

Can you tell us about this Thief Bonus you are using instead of percentiles?

I think it is covered under the Thief options supplement.

Ironwolf wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 5:33 pm Can you tell us about this Thief Bonus you are using instead of percentiles?

Sure thing. Its actually something I added. The system I'm running is more or less a base of BFRPG and OSR mentality with a total d20 focus, as such instead of using saving throw tables, percentiles and whatnot I simply have players roll d20 and add bonuses to meet a Target Number.

In the case of Thieves, I grant them a flat +2 at level 1 for Thief skills (a long list of possible applications), this bonus grows over time (Level cap is 10 and the bonus is +6 by then). Non Thieves get a +3 penalty to the Target Number in order to smoothen up gameplay rather than having them substract from their roll.

Clerics for example have a Turn Undead Bonus, which adds to TA Rolls and the exact number is the amount of Hit Dice/Monster Hits you can affect with the roll (say a level 2 Cleric with a +3 TA Bonus will be able to turn 3 1 Hit Die Undead Creatures/One 2 Hit Die Undead Creature on a successfull roll).

I like Clerics, and Cleric/Thief Multi-Class. The former, I always play as the lawful and righteous upholder of virtue, and the latter is a rascal who serves the gods of pilfering.

I've never analyzed the Cleric/Thief, as they are not a normally-allowed combo class. Perhaps I need to look at this one for Gnomes and maybe Halflings...

Solomoriah wrote: ↑Sat Jan 30, 2021 11:04 am I've never analyzed the Cleric/Thief, as they are not a normally-allowed combo class. Perhaps I need to look at this one for Gnomes and maybe Halflings...

My inclusion of this particular combo is a bit of a relic of my upbringing in the age of 2e and the classic Baldur's Gate and similar games. I favored multi class Half-Elves, and when I played in BFRPG, my GM at the time allowed me to use some unorthodox options in his game, so I defaulted to my old favorites. I do think it would be very appropriate for Gnomes and Halflings to be Thief Clerics. Their gods likely favor stealth and trickery.

Solomoriah wrote: ↑Sat Jan 30, 2021 11:04 am I've never analyzed the Cleric/Thief, as they are not a normally-allowed combo class. Perhaps I need to look at this one for Gnomes and maybe Halflings...

I have analyze it thanks to my class comparison file, and, funny thing, yesterday I was looking at this combo-class specifically... so, here is one analysis:
(Note, this is not a level vs level comparison, its an XP vs XP one, comparing the classes at same amounts of XP)

In theory: The CT would receive:
d6 hit dice
Allowed every armor, this will get limited due to its special abilities.
Allowed every weapon, this may be limited depending on how one sees the combo-class, the god of thieves and or mischief may not allow other than blunt weapons.
Thieving skills, limited by the use of armor
Backstabbing, limited by the use of weapon
Turning Undead
Clerical Spell

Now, compared against a Thief:
Due to XP values the Thief is for the first 10 levels, 2 levels ahead of its combo brother, starting at 11th level the difference become higher and higher, a level 20 Thief is a 12th level CT.
Regarding HP, the CT starts with higher potential, the thief except for a couple level has a higher average, but the CT has lower minimums and higher maximums
On the Attack Bonus side, the Thief is ahead thanks to the level difference with a 1 point difference.
Of course, the Thief will have better thieving skill values.
On Saving Throws, it the CT has the edge on 2/5 of them.

Now, compared against a Cleric:
Due to XP values the Cleric is for the first 9 levels, 1 level ahead of its combo brother, starting at 10th level the difference increases slowly, a level 20 Cleric is a 14th level CT.
Regarding HP and Attack Bonus the Cleric has the edge thanks to the level difference.
Of course, the Cleric has better progression on spells and turning undead.
On Saving Throws, it the CT has the edge on 1/5 of them and only for the first 9 levels.


So, in resume the Cleric-Thief:
Has lower fighting skill than its component classes.
Has lower HP range that the Cleric and a lower average than the Thief, but depending on roll it could have less or more HP.
It has mostly worst saves.
It can use any armor but thieving skill will limit this (Elves and Halfling can cast in armor when combo'ed but I recall that being a race quirk, I don't see Halflings and Gnomes getting such a quirk for sneaking in breastplate...)
They can use any weapon, unless the clerical restriction still applies
They get the special abilities of both classes, and this is where the class could be useful, disarming traps, sneaking and hiding while turning undead and casting spells.

When a Thief is Level 20 the Cleric is 17lvl and the CT is 12
A 12th level CT will have:
9d6+3HD
+6AB
4/4/3/2/2/1 Spells slots
Able to affect every undead
Thieving skills:
-Open Locks: 74
-Remove Traps: 69
-Pick Pockets: 82
-Move Silently: 74
-Climb Walls: 91
-Hide: 59
-Listen: 71
(Note: If the GM allows the use of skill points then the character could not increase his Pick Pocket -if its not allowed by its deity, and have about 52 points spent among the other skills)

I'm usually a Cleric guy but when it comes to playing BFRPG, something I rarely do as opposed to running it, I really like the Paladin from the Rangers & Paladins supplement. I like being the moral compass of the party and being able to be the main tank while still providing some healing and support to my party.

Also if you like having spell-like powers without actually having to manage spells then the Pally has you... at least until level 10.