Holy Water and the rules

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Hexamer47
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Holy Water and the rules

Post Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:56 am

Hello All,

I was looking at the 3rd ed. Core Rules, under the equipment list it notes "Holy Water, per vial", this is also the same in the Equipment Emporium supplement. Holy Water per Vial is also listed at a weight of *, which would mean approx 10 of them would weigh 1lb.

Now, in the encounter section of the 3rd ed. Core rules, pg 49, Holy Water heading, it states that "A flask of holy water can be thrown as a grenade-like missile".

My question is if Holy Water is truly in a vial, in my mind is quite a bit smaller than a flask, shouldn't you be able to throw more than 1 at a time?

If this is incorrect and Holy Water should truly be listed as being in a flask, then wouldn't each Flask of holy water weigh in at 1lb., same as a Flask of Oil?

Thanks in advance for any input on this!
Seven
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Re: Holy Water and the rules

Post Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:22 pm

The rate of fire is more a question of aiming than of weight.

Think of it as a modern grenade. They are light enough but you throw them one by one.

A vial is a small glass bottle.
I see a flask here as a glass container that is shaped so that it's likely to break on a moderate impact. Ideally, it would be stored in such a way as to reduced the odd of breaking until you're ready to throw it, but I don't have a strategy in mind.
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dymondy2k
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Re: Holy Water and the rules

Post Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:22 pm

My thought on this to keep it simple. If you can grab more than one, then how many can you grab? Can a dwarf grab more because of meatier hands, does the Halfling grab less because of his size? The other alternative is to change the size which makes each one heavier, meaning you can carry less.
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Snarkythekobold
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Re: Holy Water and the rules

Post Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:50 pm

Go outside, grab two object that are similar to the size of a vial, set up a target and try to hit the target throwing them out of the same hand . . . and you will see why there is only one throw per round.

You can only throw one thing accurately. Try to throw two golf balls at something. It doesn't work.

I mean, you could let the PC try and give them a big penalty to attack, maybe a -5. As a GM, I let my players do about anything they want . . . but I also add the proper penalties for stuff that just doesn't sound right. If they succeed, it's a good story. But they won't succeed doing crazy stuff on a regular basis with the proper penalties. It's all for fun anyways.
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Hexamer47
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Re: Holy Water and the rules

Post Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:00 pm

Thank you for everyones input and suggestions, very much appreciated!!

:D
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Solomoriah
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Re: Holy Water and the rules

Post Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:04 am

If a player had a sensible approach to throwing multiples, I'd entertain it... last night's game caused me to revise my opinion of Holy Water as a weapon against the undead.
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Seven
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Re: Holy Water and the rules

Post Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:32 pm

Solomoriah wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:04 am If a player had a sensible approach to throwing multiples, I'd entertain it... last night's game caused me to revise my opinion of Holy Water as a weapon against the undead.
Care to share? Sounds entertaining.
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Solomoriah
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Re: Holy Water and the rules

Post Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:39 am

Pepik the Gnome threw holy water vials at an advancing line of zombies three times, and missed all three times... but after applying the grenade-like weapons rules, some were splashed and took 1d6 points of damage each time he threw. When they finally had to melee the monsters, they were quite a bit easier to kill (and one had already fallen).
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Seven
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Re: Holy Water and the rules

Post Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:27 am

Fun, but if anything, it shows holy water is great as is, since misses can become hits.

Other related mechanics that the DM often has to rule on.

What if I pour holy water on the ground? How much damage will the undead take crossing it?
Can you bless oil instead of water? How much damage would holy oil do?
What if you pour holy oil on the ground and the undeads trip on it?
And then you throw a torch in it?

My novice players threw flaming oil quite a bit at orcs and goblins.
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SmootRK
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Re: Holy Water and the rules

Post Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:07 pm

Seven wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:27 am What if I pour holy water on the ground? How much damage will the undead take crossing it?
As someone coming from Catholic side of things, Holy Water poured upon the ground is no longer "consecrated" and would just be water (ie NO Damage).
Seven wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:27 am Can you bless oil instead of water? How much damage would holy oil do?
What if you pour holy oil on the ground and the undeads trip on it?
And then you throw a torch in it?
Of course each GM is up to his own whims, but again coming from Catholic circles, one cannot create Holy Oil in the sense of your idea of flammable oil. Just doesn't exist.

That said, Catholics do consecrate holy oils for anointing (rubbing small amount on head/chest during certain ceremonies like baptism, first communion, etc. but I do not know of the flammable qualities of this. I doubt it, as it seems more of the olive oil sort of oil than a petroleum/kerosine-sort of oil.

Of course, these ideas come from the real world ideals about Holy Water. In a game, where there are definitely other "gods" and beings with different dominions would each certainly have differences in what substances they consider for Holy endeavors. A god of fire, for instance, might actually prefer a Holy Flammable Oil and completely reject the idea of utilizing H2O (antithesis of Fire, eh?). So my true and full answer would perhaps be modeled on the deity in question.
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