Retainers and Their (Lack of) Loyalty

[JoeCarr28]

OK, so I've never used retainers before, but one of the Marketstone PbP characters is currently on a recruitment drive and I'm trying to understand how best to fit them in the game.

The one thing that strikes me is that it seems very unlikely that any given retainer will hang around for more than a couple of adventures. Even if the retainer is kept away from the front line action (and therefore their loyalty isn't tested mid-adventure), they're still required to make a loyalty test at the end of each adventure. For a standard PC (average charisma) and a standard retainer (loyalty 7), this means that there's over a 40% chance they'll leave. This doesn't seem a very good investment of a half share of xp for the party.

Is it deliberately intended that there should be a high turnover of retainers (i.e. it's assumed they move on to bigger and better things)? Or does anyone house rule it differently?

[Maliki]

This is one of those things I would never leave to a roll of the dice. If I was running things, as long as the retainer was treated fairly well by the PC (and the party) he would hang around. Now if he was treated poorly or had several near death experiences while with the party he would probably be wanting to move on.

[Solomoriah]

Actually, I'm with Maliki here, though if you prefer to resolve it with a die roll, you can of course adjust it however you see fit.

[Hywaywolf]

I like the roll of the dice method and using modifiers to estimate how the PC treats his retainer and how much treasure is won by the retainer. Even a low % of a lot of treasure is better than sitting in a pub begging alms. And I think it should be expected by retainers that they will be the first one through the door. Its just the way things are done. That shouldn't be a negative result on morale rolls, unless they are essentially suicide missions or too many rear holding actions while the rest of the party runs away.


Also, I don't think it would be a bad return on investment if you lose a retainer since the leaving comes after the work is done to gain the experience. What makes it a poor investment is the book requirement that you can only hire retainers half your level. Change that to half the experience points or one level below the PC and it would work out alright. Just hire another retainer when you get to town. Or if you have played out that town, go to another.

[Solomoriah]

The half level requirement is meant to balance the experience charts; a character one level less than you, getting half your XP, will be one level less than you through 9th level or so, consistently. A character half your level gaining half your XP will advance a bit faster, but never get past one level below.

[Hywaywolf]

In your reasoning neither method will allow the retainer to get past one level below. But the "half level" method will allow your retainer to get 5 levels below you if the retainer quits or dies.. I think the half xp is more fair.

If the retainer quits or dies, and you are 9th level you have to hire someone 4th level. Using the example in the Marketstone game, the 2nd level thief hires a 1st level fighter. Say the fighter sticks around a long time and the thief gains 150,000 xp and the fighter gains 75,000 xp. Now the thief is 9th level and the fighter is 7th level. So now say the fighter is killed, the thief can hire only a 4th level fighter. Assuming you will start the retainer at the beginning of 4th level the fighter will have 8000 xp (or if you start him at level 4 1/2 then he has 12,000xp) and the thief 151,250 xp. Another 150,000 xp and the thief has 301,250 xp (11th lvl) and the fighter has 83,000 xp or 87,000 xp (8th level either way). The fighter is always way lower than the thief using the "half the level" rule.

Using the half experience method:
Say now that the 9th level thief hires a fighter at half his experience level - 75,625 xp - he hires a 7th level fighter. 150,000 xp later the thief is 11th level and the fighter is 8th level. The retainer is more useful and able to survive which is why you hire a retainer anyway.

If it was a MU then at 8th level he would hire a 7th level fighter.
150,000 more xp, MU is 9th and the fighter is 8th.

I can see where this would become a problem if a PC hires 4 retainers to be his shield. Perhaps the rule could be modified such that a PC can divide up a number of xp equal to his total number of xp with no retainer getting more than half the experience of the PC.

[Solomoriah]

Retainers are not supposed to be fully effective party members; that would require a PC, or a GM controlled NPC who "decides" to adventure with you. They're supposed to be support staff.

A retainer should never be able to upstage his or her master. The PCs are always supposed to be the heroes.

[Hywaywolf]

That is yours and mine personal opinion. Thats why I don't play with them. But originally, especially with the keep on the borderlands, TSR thought retainers were effective members of the party that helped clear the way for the party. Heck, it allowed for 1st level PCs to hire retainers. I just think that if you are going to allow retainers in a game you make them effective and just up the number and complexity of the traps, monsters and NPCs the party runs into.