Determining Monster Threat

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caledoniaman
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Determining Monster Threat

Post by caledoniaman »

Good afternoon. Long time 5e DM here who just discovered your game and absolutely love it.

I was wondering if anyone had an easy, surefire way of making sure that encounters were balanced? Later versions of "the World's first role-playing game" obviously use Challenge Rating but I'm kind of striggling with writing BFRPG adventures.

I didn't know how to do it back when I played Moldvay Basic back in the day either, so it's not just a BFRPG issue. Any advice would be welcomed.
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orobouros
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Re: Determining Monster Threat

Post by orobouros »

One way is to calculate the party vs party DPS and HP total. DPS is pretty much the average damage done by one party to the other, averaging hit success likelyhood and damage. For example, two orcs facing a party of two fighters with AC 17 will have a DPS of 0.15*4.5 = 0.67. The two fighters with short swords have a DPS (assuming they're both level 1 -- attack bonus 1 -- and with str +1) 0.4*3.5 = 1.4

Then compare HP/DPS. 2 orcs will have a typical HP of 9 total, 2 fighters at level 1 will also have 9 HP typically. The fighters will, if both groups just have at each other, defeat the orcs after 9/1.4 rounds, or 7 rounds. It'll take the orcs 14, twice as long.

Is this balanced? I don't know. After one of these fights the party (of two fighters) is going to be pretty hurt. They'll probably win, but another such battle will probably end in a character death. Does that make it balanced? You have to decide.

In a real game, PCs will have smarter tactics and maybe they don't get hurt too bad. My rule of thumb is that if the party beats the enemy party five times faster, then it's no real challange. The other way around, it's almost hopeless for the party. Both those situations should be avoided -- unless you have a good reason.

Here's the real point, though. OSR games don't care much about balance. The players need to be smart enough to figure out if they should engage, and the GM should be prepared to give them the right clues to let them decide. And if a character dies, the character dies. It's okay if that happens.
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Hywaywolf
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Re: Determining Monster Threat

Post by Hywaywolf »

A first level party could meet a dragon and if they were stupid enough could attack it and all die. Or they could try to talk to it using their highest charisma player and perchance gain some insight they didn't have before along with a dire warning not to touch the dragon's hoard if they find it.

That is an actual encounter a party I was in had. The player rolled some great rolls and the dragon decided she was a funny little thing and chose to actually tell us something useful instead of ignore us or eat us. So was that a balanced encounter? That was a win for the party in my book.

I guess encounter balance all depends on what you consider an encounter. Does it have to be a battle of arms? Could it be a battle of wits? Or could it be a matter of successfully surviving the encounter in any way possible including running away?
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Dimirag
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Re: Determining Monster Threat

Post by Dimirag »

To me, balancing encounters in OSR games is more an art than a mathematical thing.
You should know your players and their characters, and they should know that encounters won't always be balanced, avoiding the encounter, running or talking are valid options.
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GM Parseth
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Re: Determining Monster Threat

Post by GM Parseth »

As Dimirag says, it's more an art and, if the party is being overwhelmed then they should learn that not every encounter should be a combat one. These orcs might not like those hobgoblins so maybe you strike up a rapport with them and get the two to fight each other giving the party ample time to loot one of the lairs. Or maybe learn to set up traps. Or maybe that the Magic-User should really learn the Sleep/Web spell instead of Missile. Or maybe they retreat back to town and hire some more muscle to help with the cleaning out.
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teaman
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Re: Determining Monster Threat

Post by teaman »

Here's another "DM Secret Weapon": morale. (Well, can't be all that secret).

If in the middle of things you are looking at a TPK (and don't want that), start rolling morale for some injured opponents.

If things are too easy, you are perfectly free to skip a Morale check and just decide they fight to the end.

I'm using it a lot since we rebooted with 3rd level characters. Low level characters are pretty brittle and morale helps keep them alive. I tended to hand-wave it when they were in the 12-16 level range. At that point, they could more than hold their own.

(As a side note, they are really noticing the danger in adventuring since we are back at low levels.)
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Solomoriah
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Re: Determining Monster Threat

Post by Solomoriah »

Generally, monsters having the same hit dice as the adventurers are a "fair" challenge. If a monster's name has an asterisk after it, it's a bit tougher, and should be considered at least one level higher (but read the monster description to be sure).

But yeah, it's an art. Best way to check is to post your adventure in the Workshop and we can all argue about it for you... :D
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