Sneak Attack

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cbarchuk
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Re: Sneak Attack

Post Sun May 27, 2018 7:45 pm

Saladin wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 5:14 pm
Thief abilities were always stupid. We realized that when they first came out. The simplest answer is just to add 50% to everything, then subtract 10% for each level the target is above the thief or add 10% for each level below. (Use dungeon levels for traps, etc.)
I do like this idea Saladin. Have you tried it your self? Does it feel balanced? So you're still working with the default percentages for each level as written but just adding a flat 50% to each? Just want to make sure I'm understanding you right.
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cbarchuk
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Re: Sneak Attack

Post Sun May 27, 2018 8:02 pm

I wanted to add that what I did with my level 1 thief in the beginning was allow him to use all the optional thief options including losing the leather armor for a 10% boost as well as the bonuses for being a halfling and adjustments from attributes. I also allowed the 30pt allocation option as described on page 153 of the main book. Put all this together and the thief skills ending up not really being too bad all in all.

So his stats at this point as a level 4 halfling thief are...

Open Locks 70%
Remove Traps 60%
Pick Pockets 60%
Move Silently 80%
Climb Walls 80%
Hide 25% / halfling Hide 70%/90%
Listen 55%

Not bad really.
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Dimirag
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Re: Sneak Attack

Post Sun May 27, 2018 9:33 pm

cbarchuk wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 7:41 pm
Dimirag, can you explain the first option a bit more? I'm talking about the d10+lvl vs d10+ lvl one you mentioned.
The thief rolls a d10, ads his level and if the result is equal or better than 10+opposition level its a success.
Instead of adding ten times the thief's level the d10 allows you to add the level directly (each +1 is a +10% on the d10), and, instead of the player having to know the opposition level and having to modify accordingly, the GM gives (or keeps secretly) the target number.
Sorry for any misspelling or writing error, I am not a native English speaker
Drawing portfolio: https://www.instagram.com/martin.dimirag/
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cbarchuk
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Re: Sneak Attack

Post Sun May 27, 2018 11:09 pm

Dimirag wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 9:33 pm
cbarchuk wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 7:41 pm
Dimirag, can you explain the first option a bit more? I'm talking about the d10+lvl vs d10+ lvl one you mentioned.
The thief rolls a d10, ads his level and if the result is equal or better than 10+opposition level its a success.
Instead of adding ten times the thief's level the d10 allows you to add the level directly (each +1 is a +10% on the d10), and, instead of the player having to know the opposition level and having to modify accordingly, the GM gives (or keeps secretly) the target number.
Interesting. So a level 3 thief would simply roll a d10+3 when using any of his thieving skills? I assume opposition level for the opposition would be a monsters hit dice? What about traps and locks?
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Dimirag
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Re: Sneak Attack

Post Mon May 28, 2018 11:38 am

Yes, he adds his level to the d10 roll
For opponents with HD or Level, use that value, against traps and others... using Saladin idea would require a kind of Dungeon Level... maybe using the adventure's suggested level? Other than that, is up to the GM
cbarchuk wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 8:02 pm
Open Locks 70%
Remove Traps 60%
Pick Pockets 60%
Move Silently 80%
Climb Walls 80%
Hide 25% / halfling Hide 70%/90%
Listen 55%
Are those values for a 1st level thief? Would you mind putting the mathematics behind those values?
You get a +10 for no armor, +5 for race, and up to +15 for an 18 Attribute... As a 1st level character you don't get to divide points, those starts at 2nd level...
Sorry for any misspelling or writing error, I am not a native English speaker
Drawing portfolio: https://www.instagram.com/martin.dimirag/
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cbarchuk
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Re: Sneak Attack

Post Mon May 28, 2018 12:24 pm

Dimirag wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 11:38 am
Yes, he adds his level to the d10 roll
For opponents with HD or Level, use that value, against traps and others... using Saladin idea would require a kind of Dungeon Level... maybe using the adventure's suggested level? Other than that, is up to the GM
cbarchuk wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 8:02 pm
Open Locks 70%
Remove Traps 60%
Pick Pockets 60%
Move Silently 80%
Climb Walls 80%
Hide 25% / halfling Hide 70%/90%
Listen 55%
Are those values for a 1st level thief? Would you mind putting the mathematics behind those values?
You get a +10 for no armor, +5 for race, and up to +15 for an 18 Attribute... As a 1st level character you don't get to divide points, those starts at 2nd level...
No those are the values for a level 4 halfling thief. At level 1 with an 18 dex and a 14 str they were...

Open Locks 50%
Remove Traps 30%
Pick Pockets 60%
Move Silently 55%
Climb Walls 80%
Hide 25% / Halfling Hide 70%/90%
Listen 45%

Does that look correct? Includes all the thief options and then each level I would just add 10% to 3 skills of thief's choosing. By level 4 he had what I listed above in the prior post.
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Dimirag
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Re: Sneak Attack

Post Mon May 28, 2018 12:57 pm

cbarchuk wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 8:02 pm
So his stats at this point as a level 4 halfling thief are...
I forgot to read this part hehe
Sorry for any misspelling or writing error, I am not a native English speaker
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cbarchuk
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Re: Sneak Attack

Post Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:49 pm

One more thing, is it safe to assume that a thief will usually only be able to backstab ONCE during a combat? I'm sure this is debatable but my reason for asking is it seems to me once the thief comes out of hiding every monster will know he is there and be watchful of him trying to backstab again. Do any DM's out there allow their thieves to backstab several times during combat? I know the rules say that backstabbing the same monster is unlikely but otherwise it doesn't mention any other limitations.
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Dimirag
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Re: Sneak Attack

Post Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:19 pm

Solomoriah wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 10:21 pm
Combat is noisy; if the battle is already joined, moving silently may not be all that important, but staying out of sight (hide) would be critical.

Judgment is always required.
Using what Solo said, if you judge that an opponent has no idea that the thief is attacking... then you could apply backstabbing.

Or you can apply backstabbing to any attack from the back... (I do this)

Some GMs and other games rule that it can happen only once as the combatants are always paying attention to their surroundings.
Sorry for any misspelling or writing error, I am not a native English speaker
Drawing portfolio: https://www.instagram.com/martin.dimirag/
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cbarchuk
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Re: Sneak Attack

Post Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:01 pm

Dimirag wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:19 pm
Solomoriah wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 10:21 pm
Combat is noisy; if the battle is already joined, moving silently may not be all that important, but staying out of sight (hide) would be critical.

Judgment is always required.
Using what Solo said, if you judge that an opponent has no idea that the thief is attacking... then you could apply backstabbing.

Or you can apply backstabbing to any attack from the back... (I do this)

Some GMs and other games rule that it can happen only once as the combatants are always paying attention to their surroundings.
Interesting. Okay yea I guess I'm having a difficult time with how to rule on this in my current game. Now if the thief in my game wanted to sneak into a room ahead of the party then I see how Move Silently and Hide in Shadows would come into play. But most of the time he waits till the fighters move to engage and then tries to flank. Move silently doesn't seem to make sense cause of all the noise as Solo has pointed out and hiding doesn't make sense because he's not standing still waiting to ambush someone. So I've been thinking of maybe just rolling a d6 every time for surprise but allowing the thief to achieve surprise on a 1-4. This makes more sense to me in the heat of combat and also not allowing the thief to backstab the same target more than once. What do you think?
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