Sneak Attack

[cbarchuk]

Tell a PC that he was just stabbed in the back and that he is surprised, "No, John, you can't fight back this round. No, your MU doesn't get to roll for surprise. Well it was obvious to me that you were surprised."

John will say, "On page 43 it says 'Characters or creatures which are well hidden and prepared to perform an ambush surprise on a roll of 1-4 on 1d6.' It doesn't say its automatic"

Well there ya go. So obviously surprise isn't the same thing as being unaware and it isn't guaranteed. Then the thief should roll for surprise either prior to after the attack. And just from reading the rules again my bet is it needs to be rolled prior. It's similar to if a party wonders into a room where some spiders are hiding up in the rafters where they can surprise on a 1-4. As soon as the party enters the room a surprise roll is made.

[Hywaywolf]

Yes, the GM will roll to see if the enemy is surprised once the ambush is sprung which starts round one. Now the thief has taken his action and waits till round two to take another hoping and praying he doesn't get killed before he can run away or is rescue by the rest of the party.

BTW, the thief doesn't need to roll for surprise (which the GM would do for him) because he is initiating the attack and thus can't be surprised into in-action.

[Dimirag]

John will say, "On page 43 it says 'Characters or creatures which are well hidden and prepared to perform an ambush surprise on a roll of 1-4 on 1d6.' It doesn't say its automatic"

Agh ruleslayers

[Hywaywolf]

John will say, "On page 43 it says 'Characters or creatures which are well hidden and prepared to perform an ambush surprise on a roll of 1-4 on 1d6.' It doesn't say its automatic"

Agh ruleslayers

LOL. I play BFRPG because its rules light. There are so few rules that it doesn't make much sense to ignore them. For special situations and/or everything else where there isn't a rule I am 100% in favor of GM fiat. I would be arguing all day with a modern GM about what the rules say if I had a stack of rule books to work from.

[cbarchuk]

Well tell John after careful consideration I've decided that his MU is surprised and is going to be attacked again by the Goblin Thief...

[Hywaywolf]

Well tell John after careful consideration I've decided that his MU is surprised and is going to be attacked again by the Goblin Thief...

Hywaywolf the Cleric casts "Speak with Dead"

[cbarchuk]

Had another question that is similar but this time concerning the Assassin. Does the Assassin need to achieve surprise in order to Assassinate the target?

The supplement reads: any time an Assassin is behind an opponent in melee and it is reasonably
likely the opponent doesn't know he or she is there, an attempt to assassinate may be made.

This reads exactly like the thieves backstab. I know in older editions of D&D the Assassin I believe needed surprise in addition to a MS or HS roll. Anyways going by just the wording here can an Assassination be attempted even in combat again as long as the opponent doesn't realize the Assassin is there?

[Solomoriah]

Correct. The abilities are meant to work in the same way.

[cbarchuk]

Correct. The abilities are meant to work in the same way.

Hey Chris, thanks for the reply. Do you put any limitations on what the Assassin can Assassinate? For example in a recent game, the Assassin in my party one-shotted a bronze golem. Or is this ultimately up the DM?

[SmootRK]

I would only allow Assassination against living beings, not undead, constructs, etc. Nor would I allow assassination against essentially non-humanoid living beings. No dragon assassinations, etc.

Basically, I see Assassination as a specialized skill used in, that's right, the elimination of specific individuals, usually for a fee. This is James Bond or Assassin's Creed sort of stuff, not Conan or Aragorn sort of skills.

This is not meant as a hunter skill, nor that of a sneaky golem destroyer. In a dungeon exploration, Assassination should be even more limited than a Thief Backstab/Sneak Attack. So yes, I limit the skill for use against basically humanoid living targets... though I could include some near-human such as giants, centaurs, lizard-men, etc. but likely at penalty.