Basic Fantasy RPG Forums

Just throwing this out there for comment, but what sorts of abilities would one apply to a Gladiator? I have some ideas for such an optional sub-class of fighters, but would love to hear some other's ideas before I share... that way they are unbiased by my opinions.

Also, anyone have ideas on Bard Songs to add to my quasi-class bard? I have a few undeveloped songs that need further thought to finish up as well.

On Gladiators:

I suppose it depends on where you want to position your gladiators on the historical -- cinematic axis.

Some thoughts:
- Gladiators would likely be familiar with a broad range of melee weapons, yet it is likely they would specialize in specific fighting types. They may also get an AC bonus in their preferred/specialized gear set. If you need an off-set for any bonuses, they may not be proficient with bows, crossbows, or slings (treat as non-proficient per Magic-users).

- 2nd Ed. Complete Fighter's gave Gladiators a damage penalty when using their style: the 'giving the crowd a good show' approach. They may have some ingrained "Flynning." Another possibility is having a knack for taking opponents to 0hp in 1-1 combat: professional courtesy to your fellow gladiator, plus it gives the crowd/emperor/high priest/whatever the decision on who lives and who dies.

- They may be equipped with unusual arms and armor: Specific odd bits of piecemail, net-and-trident, inappropriate paired weapons, nothing but a helmet and a chainsaw, weird bladed armguards/gauntlets, punch daggers with far too many pointy pieces, two-headed glaive, paired spiked bucklers... or simple sword-and-board. Whatever fits the setting.

- These guys are probably trained for individual combat - but not necessarily 1-1. They don't do formations well. Good luck working that into rules, though.

- They may be specialized in types of fights (1-1, skirmish, mounted/chariot, foot vs. mounted/chariot, beast-fighting, etc). They may get bonuses in those situations, much like the ranger's preferred enemy.

- The Roman model very much parallels modern professional athletes, except with the slavery part being overt. Gladiator PCs are likely then either escaped/freed/bought out, or have won their freedom. They'll probably have some level of local fame - particularly if they won freedom.

- Constitution is the likely secondary for Classical gladiators. If you want something different style-wise (highly acrobatic, for instance), Dexterity or Charisma could be used. I'd actually have Charisma as a recommended attribute - the ones that are spared are the crowd-pleasers.

- They're fighting showmen. They have a way of fighting that makes them look cool. They may have a knack for boasting and trash-talking. This could translate into a morale check or check modifier (presumably based on Charisma) for intimidation - or inspiration for their side.

3cp.

Nice ideas, thanks.

My own concept is that they are very much like regular fighters for most situations, albeit less armoured - in BFRPG terms:
Requirements: DEX 13 (prime), STR 11
- Leather (light), Chain (medium), or some combination of piecemeal armour (from supplement) that does not add up to be Heavy armour.
- They get additional benefit to AC from level (+1 @ 4th, then +1 every 4 to max +5 at 20th level). After reading another incarnation, I will probably make this an actual bonus from the use of Armour/Shield, rather than a dodge sort of benefit... that way they don't lose massive AC from a situation where they are unable to utilize DEX.
- They add their DEX bonus to their "to hit" bonus (in addition to any from STR) when fighting against Humanoids (medium/small, includes Humans, Demi-Humans). This bonus is also applicable to any special manoeuvres (tripping, disarming, etc.) against such Humanoids.
- They use any melee weapon easily. They do not have proficiency in Bows, Crossbows, Slings or similar device propelled missile weapons, but may use thrown missile weapons normally.
- They can use Fighter Weapon Specialization (if utilized), but get their first rank at 4th level instead of 1st (I use this rule for all the Fighter sub-classes).

I like your Charisma idea, but I think I will incorporate that into something vague like: when a Gladiator is fighting for money, the charisma modifier can be tied to rewards won. The charismatic gladiator always earns more as the crowd cheers him on.

In keeping with the BFRPG simplistic model for classes, I don't think I would want to make things any more complex than that. Essentially just dexterity based fighters with a couple of hand-to-hand perks. I am just not sure if I have all the Trade-Off's from regular fighters done equitably.

minus: armor, minus some weapons, extra requirements
plus: some AC benefit, Bonus against humanoids, ?? something else?

Simple is good. This also makes for a more generic 'prize fighter' - something that can fit anywhere from brutal pits to sanctioned competitions for the Noble Courts - but still a bloodsport. You might allow them some more "unorthodox" weapon arrangements - impractical things like fighting with two scimitars and such. I'd also consider building a couple specific 'gladiator' armor sets - this gives you room to fudge the AC slightly from piecemail rules if necessary.

This version of Gladiator would also cover some aspects of the Duelist - lighter armor, a fast and proficient fighter against humanoids but out of their element against tentacled monstrosities, likely to be paid by the fight, etc.

I'm also seeing how this could overlay with the Barbarian Q-class to capture the early days of a certain cinematic slave-turned-warrior-who-later-became-governor, but that is another story.

Here are latest revisions to my Quasi-Class Document, and there were a couple of very minor edits to the overall House Rules document (removal of Raging for Barbarian, edit to the Careful Aim ability of Archer) and a Introductory paragraph.

Revisions to Quasi-Classes include work on Bards, nearly complete Sage and a couple of tweaks to the other quasi-classes. Sub-Classes are still in the document (not separated yet while I work), but the major details of a Gladiator/Duelist subclass are included with the Knight and my version of Ranger. Also there is a new introductory paragraph.

You need to email me the Quasi-Classes in ODT if you want it on the website.

Solomoriah wrote:You need to email me the Quasi-Classes in ODT if you want it on the website.

Not really ready to put it up as a release (too many unfinished bits in Bard still for now), sharing my periodic work for commentary and collaboration. But, I expect that very soon the real 2nd Release of Quasi-Classes will be ready, as well as a split off set of Alternate Fighter Sub-Classes Supplement.

Here are my latest revisions to the Quasi-Class/Sub-Classes. There is more to come (further refinement of Quasi-Classes Bard, Sage, and more Sub-Class Ideas - probably go ahead and write up Thug (thief subclass) as a class offering).

Looking good. A couple of things you might want to look at:

1) Is the Archer range bonus to all range categories, or just maximum? I might have missed it in text.

Also, while it's less useful due to the far shorter ranges, would a thrown-weapon specialist be a reasonable option? per GM ruling, of course (Spear-throwers would certainly be appropriate, a thief with way too many daggers happens anyways, but the Dwarf Cleric doing his Hammer Brothers impression might be a bit over the top).

2) Bards: Thief-Bards and MU-bards have some natural advantages, as their primary requisites align with the requisites and abilities for Bards. Works for me.

You could add categories for the song types (Travel, Camp, Social, Combat), or just have a designator for Combat spells. That would let you say "While playing, a bard may move defensively..." once for all of them.

Since I pushed for the whole flautist angle, would we allow them to switch between word and music within a song? Would a bard be allowed to sing a capella as a mastery choice? This appeals to me, but it needs a counterbalance - performing at 1/2 proficiency level without accompaniment, IF they have voice mastery.

If you have multiple Bards working in concert, can they somehow pool their talents for a Song? My thought would be +1 to proficiency level per additional Bard - provided they all know the same Song.

It's coming together nicely.

Excellent work on the Bard, I have been using a house rule for mine, but "Official" is always better .
Now for a question, I understand that Bards are supposed to be a bit more powerful by most legends, but allowing two starting songs plus one per INT bonus, isn't that a little much? Unless you throw in a requirement that they can only start the Bard class after attaining some higher level of another class (like 3rd lvl in Thief or Fighter). A first level M-U only gets one spell to start with and yes the songs are a bit weaker in some cases, but that gives the first level Bard an large advantage over other first level characters especially since he is already a Ftr, M-U, Thf or whatever. On the pro side, the bard is pretty much out during combat since he needs to sing his morale/weakening song, so I guess if you don't give them a larger repertoire of songs they would have little to do.