Combination Classes Questions

[Hywaywolf]

That doesn't sound like the intent of the B/X rules, but to each their own. The intent was that wearing metal gets in the way of the stealth and dexterity needed to perform thieves skills similar to metal getting in teh way of magic casting. I can see if you gave the thief an extra AC point or 2 when fighting in leather or a better to hit bonus, then I could understand taking it away if he used metal. But since his armor class is exactly the same as anyone else wearing leather i don't see the special training. Perhaps his to hit should be affected, but just simply wearing metal armor should make someone harder to hit whether or not they were trained in it.

[Solomoriah]

As a general principle, I'm against saying "no" any more often than necessary. Rather than denying the thief the use of metal armor, I prescribe penalties for doing so (loss of all his thief abilities while so attired).

I, too, fail to see the "special training" as being all that relevant.

[celtchief]

"That doesn't sound like the intent of the B/X rules,"

You are clearly correct in your assessment of the authors intent, as pointed out on page 139.


"Thieves: Wearing armor heavier, more restrictive and/or
noisier than leather armor prevents the use of any Thief
ability, including the Sneak Attack ability. Thieves may
choose to wear such armor, but this only makes them a
poor excuse for a Fighter."

But the whole reason for going to a system like Basic Fantasy is that I can say (and no offense to Mr. Gonnerman, I am in fact convincing the game club advisor at the High School I teach at to adopt your game instead of trying the 4th ed red box.. I think I won) the heck with what the author was intending, for my reasons I am going to tweak this. I in no way think the rule needs to be changed or modified. It was just my take on it. And if you will indulge me, I will further expound on it.

I have two major reasons for tweaking this rule, one in game, and one based on reality.

To me not wearing armor is one the major things that keeps the thief from being as good as a fighter when fighting. Sure you have the HP's but really, a high con and lucky roles for the Thief can make him just about as tough as a fighter who has a lower con and roles poorly. But at least the fighter has a better AC.

As for the training, I don't know, I focused quite a bit on the middle ages when I earned my history degree, and I also play with medieval re-enactors, worked at the Renn Faire, etc etc... and my impression is if you are NOT trained in wearing armor, you are at a disadvantage. Armor was fairly mobile, but heavy and vision was greatly reduced by the full helm. If you are used to swinging a sword with no weight on your arms, and all the sudden you are trying to with 10 lbs of armors on your arm, I have to imagine it is going to change your swing. I have a friend who participated in the re-enactment of the Battle of Hastings back in 2000, in England. He's quite an expert on the matter, I will double check with him and see what he says, if I get a chance.

Anyhow, that's my take, clearly you all are correct in how you are interpreting the rules, as Mr. Gonnerman intended, so i don't want anyone to think I am arguing with them.

Robert

[Hywaywolf]

When I said the Intent of the rules I was actually referring to the original creation of the thief in OD&D (specifically the Basic rule set). I completely agree with each of us having our own ideas on using the rules. Its why from the very beginning the term "houserules" was a household word. I agree with your take that not being trained in the use of metal armor will make it harder To Hit someone, but most of the stuff that happens in game would never happen in real life anyway.

I don't know if you have read the A song of Ice and Fire series, but in one of the books a main character chooses a champion to stand for him in a Trial by Combat. His champion is basically wearing light/leather armor, and his opponent is wearing full plate armor. It was a well written scene that played out just like you would expect it too, the plate armor guy could never hit the dude and the leather armor guy couldn't penetrate the plate. The plate guy slowly wore down from hauling all that weight around but he was also getting in a few minor cuts of his own. The leather guy was starting to bleed too much, but finally got the plate dude on the other side of a big heavy statue and the leather guy through him self at the statue and dropped it on the plate dude (killing him). It was a good fight scene.