House Rules, Ideas and the Like

[KeithCampbell]

... it still leaves the magic users and clerics weak as kittens compared to TFT ...

What does TFT do different? Is the Magic-User able to use a lot more spells at low level with the point system? Or are there other things as well?

I've been working on a set of optional rules for the MU, and I just posted the first release candidate on another thread here, if you're interested. They are mainly aimed at beefing up the low-level MU.

Also, for beginning players, you might look at the Beginner's Essentials supplement on the downloads page. It's a very stripped down version of the rules just for 1st level characters.

TFT has three stats, Strength, IQ and DX. A magic user's "level" is basically their IQ (your stats go up with experience). To case a spell, you roll 3d6 and succeed by rolling LESS than your IQ. "hit points" is basically your strength, and casting spells reduces your hit points - meaning you can basically magic your way to unconsciousness by magical fatigue. But provided you're willing to dangerously weaken yourself, the lowest possible level of magic user (IQ 8) can cast "magic fist" doing 1d6-2 damage, as many times as his strength (which is a minimum of 8). So the weakest magic user can do 7d6-2 damage on first setting foot in a dungeon (leaving 1 hit point to stay conscious with).

[Joe the Rat]

7d6-14 collectively, unless you can add dice for extra HP.

But yeah, I think the tradeoff was a flatter growth curve. I suspect the relationship flips at higher "experience". Good ol' quadratic wizards.

If you're using one of the spell-point systems, you could use casting from hitpoints as a desperation/bottom-of-the-barrel option, though you might need something to keep it from overbalancing. I think I saw a model in a Venerable issue of Dragon that could be adapted - it used dice as part of the drain mechanic, and was set up so a cleric couldn't heal more than it cost to cast a cure spell.

Heck, I might consider that an option for Vancian casters as well - recast something by burning 1d6 hp/spell level or some such (to a minimum of "not dead").

The catch on all this being whether or not it ends up overpowering your casters at higher levels.

[Solomoriah]

However... I still can't abide the fire-and-forget magic system. One of the things I liked about Microlite was a points-based magic system more like TFT. I'll just hack in a house rule if need be, but I wondered if there were a more "official" option for points-based magic somewhere in one of the supplements that I'd missed.

Be warned, the spells in BFRPG aren't balanced with points in mind. You can end up with game balance issues using a points system.

Also note, we don't use the term "memorization" to describe the magic system in BFRPG. My rationale is this: It takes time to actually cast a spell, saying the words, making the gestures, and investing the energy in the dweomer. So magic-users do most of the casting in advance, holding the almost-completed spell in abeyance until it's needed. The magic-user may then say a few words and make a gesture or two to complete the spell when it's time to actually release it.

The number of spells a magic-user can cast per day represents the amount of magical energy the caster can hold in abeyance.

It would be possible to abstract those rules, allowing a caster to keep unused slots for spells, then use them in "long format" when needed. For instance, a magic-user might leave a first-level slot free, then spend a few minutes casting read magic or detect magic as needed. Such an unused slot would be useless in combat, so would represent a trade-off for the magic-user, but when the character reaches 5th level or so, leaving unused slots would add adventuring flexibility (particularly if he or she has a variety of spells available).

This could easily be extended to clerics, and in fact would be more useful for them (as they have few "combat" spells), allowing lesser-used spells some play.

[KeithCampbell]

7d6-14 collectively, unless you can add dice for extra HP.

But yeah, I think the tradeoff was a flatter growth curve. I suspect the relationship flips at higher "experience". Good ol' quadratic wizards.

If you're using one of the spell-point systems, you could use casting from hitpoints as a desperation/bottom-of-the-barrel option, though you might need something to keep it from overbalancing. I think I saw a model in a Venerable issue of Dragon that could be adapted - it used dice as part of the drain mechanic, and was set up so a cleric couldn't heal more than it cost to cast a cure spell.

Heck, I might consider that an option for Vancian casters as well - recast something by burning 1d6 hp/spell level or some such (to a minimum of "not dead").

The catch on all this being whether or not it ends up overpowering your casters at higher levels.

Sorry I was confusing. the actual description of the spell is "XD6-2 damage for X fatigue
spent (max=2)" So with an 8 ST wizard, the most damage you could manage would be three blasts of 2d6-2.

Some might argue that having to protect the fragile fledgling spell casters is part of the flavor of the game. Problem is that now I'll have a hard time talking my players into that So I'll adopt some combination of all the excellent suggestions that have been offered and perhaps phase them out as the spell casters grow.

[Hywaywolf]

There is a reason that MUs use intelligence as their Prime Requisite. They are the thinkers. A MU with a lot of offensive spells is no different than a fighter in that they will fight rather than think. Its my belief that the point of having a weak MU in the early stages is to teach magic using players to use their brains to outsmart their foes.

[KeithCampbell]

Also note, we don't use the term "memorization" to describe the magic system in BFRPG. My rationale is this: It takes time to actually cast a spell, saying the words, making the gestures, and investing the energy in the dweomer. So magic-users do most of the casting in advance, holding the almost-completed spell in abeyance until it's needed. The magic-user may then say a few words and make a gesture or two to complete the spell when it's time to actually release it.
.

Just realized this the other day re-reading the rules. That makes perfect sense. In most literary or classical ideas of magic, it's a process that normally consumes more time than one would have in a 10 second combat round (unless it's the Harry Potteresque "expelliarmus!" sort of thing. So pre-casting most of the spell isn't so unrealistic. But it WOULD be more realistic that one could "load" a spell anytime one has a half-hour or so of free time, or cast it directly in that amount of time. That might be a nice house rule without drastically unbalancing things.

[Sir Bedivere]

There is a reason that MUs use intelligence as their Prime Requisite. They are the thinkers. A MU with a lot of offensive spells is no different than a fighter in that they will fight rather than think. Its my belief that the point of having a weak MU in the early stages is to teach magic using players to use their brains to outsmart their foes.

I see your point on this, but I think that's a character concept thing that each player should be able to decide for himself. I don't think everyone should be forced to play that way, which under the normal rules they are. That's what people expect when they come to an Old School game and I don't think we should tinker with the core rules on this at all, but there should be options for those who prefer a different kind of magician.

[Hywaywolf]

Thats true. I didn't say it, but I was intending my comment to be for introducing newer players to playing a MU. And yes its my Bias showing. One of the biggest turn offs I had for modern D&D (especially 4e) was how every character class had the capability of being an offensive combatant throughout an entire encounter. A MU shouldn't be able to cast a spell as often as a fighter can swing a sword ( I am assuming a MU can drink a heal pot or be healed by a cleric and start casting all over again with the point system). I see an MU as the equivalent of mobile artillery. Artillery shells are bulky and heavy, you can't carry a lot of it around with you.

[Sir Bedivere]

Oh, no, confession time: When I played 4e, the magic-user's equality with the other classes was the one thing I really, really liked about the game. Overall, 4e is much-much-much too complicated, but in my ideal RPG, every first level character would be equally good at adventuring (not necessarily combat, mind you). What I mean is, every other class can take care of themselves, whereas the first level Magic-User needs babysitting, which always struck me as terribly wrong. I don't have the answer to how it should be done, but Magic-Users shouldn't be any more dependent on others than Clerics or Thieves or Fighters. (And, again, I'm talking in the abstract, not recommending core rules changes.)

[Hywaywolf]

Its the cost one pays to build a PC that will become much stronger and destructive than the other PCs.