RPG Primer and Old School Playbook

[seandon4]

I dunno. I'm guessing most people here agree that "the GM is always right." As for how to make it not feel "dismissive" that's a tough one. There seem to be sensitivities on both sides of the fence. But on the back of the BFRPG book it says "this is old school", so there's that. It also depends on the intention; I believe Solo indicated that "this is an intro for those new to RPGs", not "for those who have only played d20." There was a whole debate on DF once about calling it "DM fiat" vs "DM's discretion", but again, semantics. Sorry I don't have any editing comments / fixes yet, but I'm keeping an eye. Keep it up PS I concur about 5e; the interesting thing about it is that it has a somewhat more "old school" mentality.

[-1warrior]

I should also point out that I am a very strong supporter of the "DM is always right". However, I think this changes based on the DM/GM. Some GMs make very bad decisions on their own, and it is better if they stick to the rules. I'm not saying anyone here is like that (none of the regular posters are anyway), but it is something to keep in mind.

Also, it's great that we say "this is Old School". But Old School is not a definable thing. Each person has their own view on old school. You have to remember to make sure that the GMs who start off with this primer understand the concept of making it their game. The examples and ideas in the primer should be more like vague guidelines and concepts. Don't go ahead and say "if you want to be old school, follow these guidelines and ignore anything published after 2000". That is not a good attitude in my opinion. You need to tell the GMs that all RPG rules and guidelines are just ideas and concepts. Don't be constrained by them. Make the game what you want. Have fun with it. That is TTRPGing to me. Where there are no confines other than the GMs and the players imaginations. Also, on that note. It is a collaborative effort between both of these parties (GM and players). If they don't work together, and instead oppose each other, it will be an unenjoyable experience for all involved.

[Solomoriah]

If 5E follows Rule Zero, well, then it's not a properly "modern" game. I do recall reading that they intended to get back to the game's roots.

And yeah, there are always rules lawyers. The difference is that, in the Old School, the GM can tell one to shut up... in the New School, he has to ask nicely, and hope it works.

The more rules you have, and the more detailed and "crunchy" they are, the more room you have for lawyering.

[Solomoriah]

I believe Solo indicated that "this is an intro for those new to RPGs", not "for those who have only played d20."

Exactly so. And I submit that it's far, far easier to teach someone to play an Old School game due to the relatively lesser complexity. This is especially so in the cases of games like BFRPG, Labyrinth Lord, and Swords & Wizardy, which have chosen to go "rules light" even for the Old School.

I should also point out that I am a very strong supporter of the "DM is always right". However, I think this changes based on the DM/GM. Some GMs make very bad decisions on their own, and it is better if they stick to the rules. I'm not saying anyone here is like that (none of the regular posters are anyway), but it is something to keep in mind.

Gah. My friend, you are really becoming a thorn in my side.

The POINT of this book is to expand the hobby with new blood. The first part teaches people what playing an RPG should be like; the second, third, and fourth parts are about helping Game Masters learn how to do it right.

Fiat is part of the Old School, and I believe it's the most important part (as all the other bits depend on it to some extent or another). You can't remove it, you can't say "bad GMs should stick to the rules" because that's not how the game works. So if I want to see more Old School games succeed, I have to teach GMs how to do the job. Well, actually, I said I'd help them learn rather than teach them... it's a fine line, but it's important.

In the programming world, people learning to program often read a tutorial. Once they know the language being taught, they no longer read the tutorial (or at least, not much) but rather use the language's reference documents. I learned to program in C (the Advanced game of the programming world, with more traps than Grimtooth) from a short but fantastic tutorial book called The Unix Programming Environment. It was so good that, for a long time after I considered myself proficient, I'd re-read parts of it to refresh my understanding.

That's what the RPG Primer is to be. I'm not going to hope that I can write something that good, but I'm following the principles of that book. Show, don't tell, is the most important part. I'm still thinking about how to explain dice notation better, without really explaining much at all. I know several people have suggested I should explain more, but I'm going to keep that to a minimum and let the reader learn from examples instead. Real humans tend to do better that way anyway, and the explanations are in the rulebook (the reference to this tutorial).

[LibraryLass]

It's no more dismissive than saying that the umpire gets the final call in baseball. It's a fact, the GM is the referee, theirs is the right of arbitration.

[Solomoriah]

on't go ahead and say "if you want to be old school, follow these guidelines and ignore anything published after 2000".

I missed this when I read your post the first time. I don't have this attitude, and I don't promote this way of thinking... and I'm getting really, really tired of you harping on it. Give it a rest.

There are many features of the Old School that might be in question, but GM Fiat just cannot be removed from the set. It is the core, key, crucial thing that makes the rest of the Old School bits possible, and for the purposes of my book, it's all I'm discussing.

[Jered Taikith]

Solomoriah (trying to save myself some time here) am I correct in assuming that as you are releasing new updates you aren't substantially revising sections that you've already written? If that's true then when a new release comes out I can read just the new part. Once you get the whole thing out I will, of course, re-read the entire work.

[-1warrior]

I understand Solo. I'll let it go. I suppose I just have a slightly different view.

[Solomoriah]

Jered: You're correct, except if I say differently.

[Solomoriah]

Just uploaded R7. Parts 3 and 4 have new material in them, but neither part is done yet.