Social Combat?

[Shenron]

So, I am new to the Basic Fantasy RPG. My friends and I have been talking about getting into some old school action and we have reviewed many choices and I stumbled across Basic Fantasy by accident.

I have been reading through the rulebook, and it looks awesome. I did see some things that will require some house ruling on my end and the lack of social rules/social combat.

Any suggestions? I like to run my campaigns using both dungeon crawl and social situations.

[LibraryLass]

You could roleplay it. That would probably be the easiest solution.

But I confess that, personally, social combat rules are somewhat... against my nature.

[Jered Taikith]

Mechanically speaking, in BFRPG "social combat" rules, at present, involve only a CHA reaction roll. Solomoriah may have more to say on this. Overall, however, there is nothing to say that you can't institute some sort house rule or import social combat rules from another game. Since I love roleplay and character interpersonal reactions I've always felt that this was an area that was a little underdeveloped.

[Solomoriah]

"Social combat."

Ack.

Old School games are just not made that way, Shenron. I'm sorry. In the Old School, social interactions between PCs and NPCs are judged by the GM using whatever method he or she prefers. A reaction roll is often used, after the PC has made his or her "first contact" with the NPC, to figure out whether or not the NPC will be agreeable or not. The GM will add whatever adjustments he or she sees fit based on the player's approach to the situation; having a high CHA only gets you so far. Often, though, the GM already knows the NPC's likely response to the PC and only rolls in extreme or unusual cases.

Using stats and skills to judge character interaction is very "new school," and honestly is something I just don't enjoy. I'd much rather see players interact with my NPCs with little or no die rolling... it's way more fun that way.

Now, having said that, if someone did a really well written social supplement, I might consider it for the Downloads page. This isn't the first time I've heard the request, though honestly it's the first time I've ever seen the word "combat" follow the word "social." Maybe I'm too old.

[Hywaywolf]

I played the A Song of Ice and Fire game once and they seem to have some pretty good social rules. You might want to "borrow" those rules. I didn't like them, or any social combat games, because I want to run my PC and not have to take actions contrary to my wishes because the dice says my PC will act in a certain way.

I know that BFRPG and old school do have rules that work that way - surprise and charm for example - and I dislike it immensely when that happens, but I can see that some mechanism is needed in those situations. I just can't abide by a rule that says someones charisma has overwhelmed mine and now my PC cowers in his presence. To me, if someone wants me to cower they need beat me down personnally by making me fear for my PCs life

[Dimirag]

1-The Easiest Way: Roleplay!
2-Easy Way: Roleplay and use some mechanic, like making a saving throw against paralysis to not "freeze" under threat. Used the CHA modifier on the roll and give characters a bonus, like a +4 to fighters and a +2 to thieves and clerics.
3-The Not Easy Way: Social Attack: d20 + Social Attack Bonus + CHA vs Social Armor Class
Social Attack Bonus:
-Fighters: Use their Attack Bonus.
-Thieves: Use their Attack Bonus.
-Clerics and Magic Users: Use the Magic User Attack Bonus.

Social Armor Class: 10 + INT

Damage: 1d6 + WIS/INT

Social HP per level: Level 1-9/10+
-Fighters: 1d8+WIS/2
-Clerics: 1d8+WIS/1
-Magic Users: 1d6+WIS/1
-Thieves: 1d4+WIS/1

At 0SHP: Defeated.
Recovery Rate: 1SHP per day that the character passes without encountering a remembrance of the battle.

[Hywaywolf]

why is social armor class based on intelligence? Why not wisdom? How do you measure class status? I would imagine a smart street urchin would lose a social combat vs a average intelligence noble.

[Dimirag]

That's just a fast idea, I wrote as I was thinking...

I took the thing on a "combat" oriented nature, so, for seduction, lying, etc, it should be modified.

With social combat any ability can be used, I used CHA as a way of personal expression for the attack, I use WIS for the SHP as a manner to represent force of spirit, temperance, etc. I used INT for the AC to not use the other abilities already used but can be switched with WIS.

I give Fighters the highest SAB and SHD because they are hard to break and are the most intimidating on a direct approach.
Clerics are more inclined to talk calmly so I give them the lowest SAB, but as men of faith they are really hard to bow down so they have the second highest SHD.
Thieves rely on intimidation and such but as they avoid most close quarters encounters they have the second highest SAB, they are also quick on the action and loose their nerves faster so they have the lowest SHD.
Magic Users have the lowest SAB with along with clerics due to much bookworming, they have no benefits nor drawbacks on their social resistance and that's why they use the second worst SHD.

This is a method made on the fly as a suggestion, feel free to post your own take on it or modify this.

[Hywaywolf]

I understand, I only asked because I don't think there is a simple fix for "Social combat". You need a complete system. It would be like saying, I need a quick fix for physical combat (which involves magic, range, melee, wrestling, oil pots, and on and on).

[Dimirag]

I know, that's why that is a non-easy way instead of a fully functional solution. A social combat system that allows rolls for every situation would require an entire book and more, the more you add the more simplicity you lose.