Basic Fantasy RPG Forums

Hywaywolf wrote:My opinion, and I may be in the minority, but something just as important as "The DM should not be out to 'BEAT' the players" is "The DM should not be out to make them win."

I agree with this. The purpose of the game, first and foremost, is to have fun (everyone involved). I play with a mindset of that it is a collaboration between everyone to participate in a sort of story-like adventure.

If I were playing to beat the DM, then I would rather jump into a computer game such as Baldur's Gate. If I were all about beating out the other players, then I would probably go for World of Warcraft doing PvP stuff. As DM, if I am out to beat the players, then I am just a poor excuse for a DM... because since I control the very environment I can simply just keep throwing critters at them until they were dead.

In the end, you must simply make it fun for all. Being stuck in a dead end (whether figuratively or not), becomes unfun very fast. Another option must be presented.

This conversation is something I have been thinking a lot about this morning. From several different forums and different angles I have been reading about adventure publishing and whether or not people DM in published worlds or in a world they create themselves. As a player, I think I am starting to lean toward wanting to PLAY in published worlds. Sometimes DM fall to much in love with their world and may take it personally if you find an nifty way to sidetrack something they designed and tend to rule against those nifty tricks. Personally I don't know if I could remain an unbiased dungeon master if I were serving as coach, owner and referee of my own world. A published adventure would be like coming in to referee a game on a neutral field between two teams I owned no stock in.

Hywaywolf wrote:Sometimes DM fall to much in love with their world and may take it personally if you find an nifty way to sidetrack something they designed and tend to rule against those nifty tricks.

Hyway, I'm confused by this statement. Can you give me an example?

Here is an example from an LL campaign last week.

We listened at a door and heard some scratching, figured it was nasty rats since we have seen a bunch of them. We open the door and 30' away are some wine racks we cant see behind, but we can hear them. They start to come out and they are dire skeleton rats. The Paladin casts a protection spell (not sure the exact spell but undead will not touch him) and he sort of squats down in the doorway blocking the rats from going past him. By the rules the dire skeleton rats will attack anything, but they will avoid touching him. So we believe they will pace back and forth agitatedly trying to get around him to us and plan to pick them off with arrows. After some rules discussions/debates about what the protection spell means, the width of the door, etc., the DM agrees that the Paladin plan is correct and would work like he thinks it will. So the DM decides that the rats run back behind the wine rack without any of us getting to attack them. Finally to end the discussion, I just say, "Screw it, my encounter speed is twice that of dead rats. I leap over the Paladin, and then race over and knock over the rack. Then I will race back here before thy can get to me. Lets hope I don't trip ." I ended up needing a helper to tip the rack, which is cool, these were sturdy racks. But the whole encounter left a bad taste in my mouth and it wasn't even my plan. After the game the DM thought that he could have ran that better, but I think that if he hadn't been the "owner" of the particular room/rat trap (if it was a published module) he would have ran it with less bias toward wanting it to work the way it was intended. Or at least let the first round run as the Paladin planned it and the rats run for shelter after that.


On the other hand, DM's probably do a better job in general DMing a setting that they wrote themselves because they know it and are proud of it and the bias then is a good thing.

I know for the games that I play in which Solo runs, I do not even hesitate, if we cannot open a door, pull out the battle axe and start wailing away at it. As long as it is a wooden door, there should be no reason that an axe or maul will not bash it down unless it is protected by magic, but it should take a few swings to do so since they could not force it in the first place.

... and I roll a wandering monsters check EACH TIME you whack the door.

Or didn't you know that?

Actually I didn't know that until your previous post about it, but if it is the only foreseeable way into the room then that is my preferred method of opening it, at least in Game B (Game A I just prefer to skip rooms). If you did not allow us to break down the doors who knows how we would get into some of the rooms.