Question about some wording in the Scout Supplement.

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Jandolar
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Question about some wording in the Scout Supplement.

Post Wed Jan 01, 2014 9:55 pm

Page two states

"Scouts are always expert bowmen. When using any regular
bow (shortbow or longbow, but not crossbow), a Scout adds
+2 to his or her Attack Bonus. At 5th level, a Ranger may fire
three arrows every two rounds (a 3/2 rate of fire). This
means one attack on every odd round, two on every even
round, with the second attack coming at the end of the
round. At 9th level, the Ranger may fire two arrows every
round, with the second attack coming at the end of the
round."

I'm guessing the "Ranger" was meant to be "Scout" but wanted to make sure it was a typo or meant to be an example before I decided to try for a Scout.

Thank you in advance for your time.
Oypeen- 30/30 Hp AC 24
Rykken- 24/24 Hp AC 20
Hermia- 39/39 Hp AC 18/20
Giovanni-40/40 Hp AC 22
Ravoneth-35/35 Hp AC 18
Maephina-30/30 Hp AC 16/18
http://mapmatic.basicfantasy.org/index. ... &mapid=360
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SmootRK
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Re: Question about some wording in the Scout Supplement.

Post Wed Jan 01, 2014 11:00 pm

I believe that portion of the Scout was effectively pulled from one of the Ranger offerings (though not one of my versions). Fairly safe to say the wording is supposed to say "Scout" there.
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Jandolar
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Re: Question about some wording in the Scout Supplement.

Post Wed Jan 01, 2014 11:23 pm

Thanks!!
Oypeen- 30/30 Hp AC 24
Rykken- 24/24 Hp AC 20
Hermia- 39/39 Hp AC 18/20
Giovanni-40/40 Hp AC 22
Ravoneth-35/35 Hp AC 18
Maephina-30/30 Hp AC 16/18
http://mapmatic.basicfantasy.org/index. ... &mapid=360
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SmootRK
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Re: Question about some wording in the Scout Supplement.

Post Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:38 am

Correlating to the new PbP game getting put together, I am not of the opinion that the scout class is well balanced (at all, although I do think the general concept is ideal for the game). I would suggest reading through its associated thread for some commentary from others on the class concept:
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=228

Now, in dealing with establishing the basic character archetype of an Outdoorsy Ranger-ish sort of character, perhaps one might consider my own twist on this... Hunter (quasi-class) found in my latest draft of Quasi-Classes.
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=124
This takes the basics of Ranger (or at least my particular take on Ranger) and boils it down to just the ranger-eque abilities which can be layered upon any base class.

The Scout, as described by CrazyCrypt is based upon Ranger's Apprentise (albeit I think it breaks balance considerably). In that book, the class is a sort of Full Combination of Full Ranger and Fully Thief abilities (too much). I think the basics of what the book is about could be done by either Hunter quasi-class with Thief or Fighter, but doing both is overload.

Now, as I understand, the OP wants to mix Druid with Scout. I think the archetype could easily be achieved with just Druid with the Quasi-Class hunter I am talking about. Minimal muss and fuss this way too (and cheaper (in the xp sense) than a full combo-class done with two sub-classes in themselves). In fact, this is a planned combination in my mind and I even have a name for this particular combination: Paramadyr (taken from an old Dragon Magazine article about paladins of every alignment... paramander and paramandyr were Neutral such ones associated with druidic elements)

Just some thoughts I had that might fit your concept.
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Jandolar
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Re: Question about some wording in the Scout Supplement.

Post Sat Jan 04, 2014 11:22 am

Man that was a lot of reading. :D

That hunter is pretty cool but I'll try out this scout first and see how it works.
Thanks for the info!
Oypeen- 30/30 Hp AC 24
Rykken- 24/24 Hp AC 20
Hermia- 39/39 Hp AC 18/20
Giovanni-40/40 Hp AC 22
Ravoneth-35/35 Hp AC 18
Maephina-30/30 Hp AC 16/18
http://mapmatic.basicfantasy.org/index. ... &mapid=360
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SmootRK
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Re: Question about some wording in the Scout Supplement.

Post Sun Jan 05, 2014 8:52 am

Jandolar wrote:Man that was a lot of reading. :D

That hunter is pretty cool but I'll try out this scout first and see how it works.
Thanks for the info!
I just dislike the use of broke stuff. There are others on this site that are radically unbalanced.
Another woefully broke concept to be found is the "Pyromancer" (fire MU) class. I also think the standard Barbarian is wacky with the double-bonus mechanic it has. The Great Way Adept (Monk) by Luigi, while it closely emulates a version from ages past, has got some really out-there portions. One must understand that just because it appears on the download section (or Showcase) does not mean that it is well developed or even tested at all.

Scout = all the good of Thief and all the good of Ranger for just the XP of Cleric? It needs work. Add to this, using the XP redesign from my own House-Rules which is a bit more forgiving for Combo classes?!?
This is an area of what I consider "min-maxing" for maximum gain. Despite being a creator/innovator/designer sort of person when it comes to games, I do not encourage such techniques. I like new stuff (lots of it), but not everything is designed to work with each other (my creations included!).

I am sure that others look at some stuff that I have written with a mindset that there is too much there, despite my efforts to look for balance in what is granted. I am open to discussion and change in mechanics or XP progression when such an over-imbalance is perceived (might not always see the issue the same, but I certainly consider it carefully). As pointed out, some think my offerings to be way under-imbalanced (IE Monster Races discussion).
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Hywaywolf
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Re: Question about some wording in the Scout Supplement.

Post Sun Jan 05, 2014 9:49 am

My point of view is that if I want to play a basic non awesome PC then I will just play BTB and add in and type of specialization I want through story development and background. Say a ranger or a scout. I would put my highest stat into dex and play a thief (scout) or fighter (ranger) and then just do those things that my background says I know how to do. Either the DM will look more positive towards things I want to do as a scout or ranger or he won't. Either way, I am playing a scout or ranger.

If I am going to use supplements to play a scout or ranger, then I want to have some goodies thrown in to make them way different than just playing BTB.

With that said, the barbarian with the diehard, extra speed, rage, etc is way overbalanced. I have played it a few times and its a powerful tank. The only drawback that it has is that you rage for 10 rounds and may have to attack your own party if it doesn't break, not to mention that diehard, with negative 10 before death, might get your PC permanently killed when a PC without it would just go unconscious and be out of the fighting.
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SmootRK
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Re: Question about some wording in the Scout Supplement.

Post Sun Jan 05, 2014 8:17 pm

I guess my point of view stems from the fact that I am seldom a player. Stuff that I produce for the game, while being primarily player options, are automatically coming from the Game Master point of view... where balance, fairness, and a desire to keep things from the potential of spinning out of control, are all of paramount importance.

From a player point of view, of course more for less is IDEAL. But in the end, this can cause issues that build over time. It is a very short-sighted point of view.

Again, the Scout concept is great. I just cannot get over the kitchen sink approach the author took. If I ever get around to it, I would probably write out my own scaled down version sometime.
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Sorin_777
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Re: Question about some wording in the Scout Supplement.

Post Sun Jan 05, 2014 8:35 pm

For my two cents, I appreciate the scout concept. My son who is new to the game wanted to be an archer. The Ranger character based on the fighter class didn't exactly fit how he described wanting to play. So we rolled him up a thief, stating that we would look at changing classes after level three (and giving a couple days to get used to the game!)

I do look forward to some deeper balance either by playtesting or analysis. Any input from me will be from the point of view of a novice, though during my RPG hiatus I have played MTG for years. In that game, a well designed card that doesn't rock the boat is gold. Back to the character supplement in general, has anyone play tested it yet, and have any feedback?
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Jandolar
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Re: Question about some wording in the Scout Supplement.

Post Sun Jan 05, 2014 10:16 pm

Ok I went back and reread the Hunter sub class. I like everything in it except the favored enemy. I never did like that in any class of character although I do like the racial bonuses that some have against others (dwarves vs giants to name one). I'd really like to try a Hunter sub class tacked onto a Druid if I could change out the favored enemy for the expertise with a bow that the Scout and Ranger has. The +2 to hit and the multiple attacks later on are a nice bonus for someone that spends 90% of his time using that weapon.

I've read the Rangers Apprentice books several times and even own the complete set and never saw Halt or Will as true "Kings Rangers". They are indeed more of Hunter archetype or sub class of a fighter than what I feel a true Ranger would be.

If I could persuade my DM to let me tack the Hunter sub class onto my Druid, and change out the things that I don't like for the things that I do then I'd basically have not-quite-Cleric-not-quite-Ranger that would use the Fighters EXP and save tables. I can't see a Scout needing to open locks or find traps.... the move silent and hide are a given as is the tracking. Hmm..... I'll do some more looking. Heck you could even rework a Druid and add in the Hunter improvements and call him something else. Devout Forrester? Holy Woodsman? LOL. Maybe limit the new class to only casting 1st-4th Druid spells so that he'd not be too over powering later on?

Lots to think on here.

As far as having an over balanced (i.e. Min/Max) character goes I've had some uber powerful characters in the past but didn't play them as such. Had them play safe and intelligent and most often times the games ran great and it wasn't until things went to heck in a hand basket that the more powerful abilities were needed. At times like that the other PC's would usually say something to the effect of "WTH!? Why weren't you doing that the entire time??" I prefer a character who is well rounded and powerful but more of a thinker and tactician than a charge-in-and-kill-them-all sort, excluding my new Barbarian of course. He's a tank.... with faulty brakes.

I prefer characters like Artemis Entreri and Jarlaxle. Very very powerful, plenty of abilities and a minor hoard of magical goodies but they rarely use 100% of what they have. Only use enough to get the job done, turn it up a little here and there if needed but never show all of what you've got.
Oypeen- 30/30 Hp AC 24
Rykken- 24/24 Hp AC 20
Hermia- 39/39 Hp AC 18/20
Giovanni-40/40 Hp AC 22
Ravoneth-35/35 Hp AC 18
Maephina-30/30 Hp AC 16/18
http://mapmatic.basicfantasy.org/index. ... &mapid=360
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