Cool, a W. What's that supposed to stand for? Witch's brew?

[SmootRK]

I think the best way to get the Witch to have its own vibe, is in the spell list. A couple of goals here (as I have run across some of the weirdness of spell lists for Illusionists, MU, Necromancer, Fey Mage).

1. Minimize the use of spells from the other classes. This also keeps the issue of who can teach/learn from each other to a minimum.
2. When a spell is written, give it a Witch "angle". What I mean, is that details of the effect are produced in Potion, Unguents, Salves, Vapours, etc.
- For Instance, instead of Sleep Spell, she has an alternate sort of spell (perhaps a special 2nd level one called Sleep Bomb, where (as mentioned previously) a sleep potion is quickly slapped together and tossed into a space producing a cloud (using throwing grenades rules), instead of being HD limited, it can affect any within that cloud.
- Like I mentioned somewhere above, instead of Fly, the Witch utilizes a "Witch's Broom" spell instead.
- A Witch's Cure spell is in the form of a Salve applied to the wound rather than a "divine healing" like a cleric.
3. Do not allow (most) Witch spells to be available to other classes (there can be some exceptions).

Doing these things will set the witch apart from the other casters, even if some such spells are based upon similar spells from the other classes.

and FYI, I like the new spell ideas you got going on.

[LibraryLass]

When I first heard of this class, I pictured it creating the potions to be used in place of spells. That the spellbook was it's recipe book. Instead of casting a sleep spell, the witch had a potion of slumber that it would throw at the enemy and when the container shattered it release a cloud of foggy gas that put the enemy asleep, etc.. Maybe I'm picturing an alchemist more then a witch.

Yeah... that definitely sounds more like an alchemist to me. A really cool alchemist, mind you. But that's why I thought I might try letting them have the ability to make potions earlier than other magic items.

I think the best way to get the Witch to have its own vibe, is in the spell list. A couple of goals here (as I have run across some of the weirdness of spell lists for Illusionists, MU, Necromancer, Fey Mage).

1. Minimize the use of spells from the other classes. This also keeps the issue of who can teach/learn from each other to a minimum.
2. When a spell is written, give it a Witch "angle". What I mean, is that details of the effect are produced in Potion, Unguents, Salves, Vapours, etc.
- For Instance, instead of Sleep Spell, she has an alternate sort of spell (perhaps a special 2nd level one called Sleep Bomb, where (as mentioned previously) a sleep potion is quickly slapped together and tossed into a space producing a cloud (using throwing grenades rules), instead of being HD limited, it can affect any within that cloud.
- Like I mentioned somewhere above, instead of Fly, the Witch utilizes a "Witch's Broom" spell instead.
- A Witch's Cure spell is in the form of a Salve applied to the wound rather than a "divine healing" like a cleric.
3. Do not allow (most) Witch spells to be available to other classes (there can be some exceptions).

Doing these things will set the witch apart from the other casters, even if some such spells are based upon similar spells from the other classes.

I just cannot for the life of me get behind this. To my mind, adding the necessity of a broom to a fly spell does not make it a new spell. In fact, doing something like that goes against my every instinct as a designer. More specifically, the part that says "For the love of God, don't make a bunch of redundant effects distinguished only by superficial details." Your Sleep Bomb is closer to the mark, but... I don't know. It seems against the ethos of BFRPG to make such a hefty supplement when something that's already in place would work.

And I still think a flying broom (or a flying ointment applied to a broom, as was often described in historical beliefs about witches) is a magic item, not a spell.

and FYI, I like the new spell ideas you got going on.

You should, you came up with many of them. (I actually credited you in the third draft.)

Of the non-core spells in the supplement, the only ones that I didn't procure from Libram Magica are Animate Scarecrow (which you suggested), Disguise, Obscuring Mist (which is from my Druid), Poppet (which I got from your suggestion of voodoo dolls-- poppets are the traditional equivalent in Europe), and Eternal Slumber.

[SmootRK]

Bear in mind, just bringing up suggestions previously made as examples (not necessarily needing them in-particular). The sleep bomb idea is the one closest to what I mean in giving them their own "schtick".

Bringing up the Cure Light Wounds Spell... call it Healing Salve, make it 10 minute preparation time, lasting 1 hour once produced, have it heal 1d8+ 1/2 witch's level, make the recipient smelly from the ungeunt for the next 24 hours attracting carrion feeders and giving a negative reaction penalty. (of course, any particulars can be varied)

Any such spell can be completely "rethought" in such manners, and I don't think it makes the Spell just another in a pile of redundant effects. It gives the idea substantially different game qualities by such... certainly better than Illusionists with mostly the same stuff as magic-user with a few additions and level changes.

[LibraryLass]

That still sounds to me like making an item, not casting a spell. If you think I oughta work the brewing thing from the first two drafts back in, say so.

[SmootRK]

That still sounds to me like making an item, not casting a spell. If you think I oughta work the brewing thing from the first two drafts back in, say so.

not any more than Amulet Protection produces an "item", or Magic Jar requires such a prop, or whatever. I think the props are part of what makes a witch different than a standard MU, even one that takes on a diabolical demeanor, black robes, and a black cat.

Call it an item, call it a spell... all the same. Limited number of such "spells/items" per day (same as MU spells), but skinned differently.

Druid is a Cleric with a different spell list, focused on some different stuff, and whatnot... But they are definitely different. One would not just say "another cleric" when a druid is around... even if the underlying mechanics are similar.

To me, a Spell is a game effect. The underlying mechanics are the same whether Arcane or Divine, Necromancer or MU, but they can entail different accoutrements in order to make them different, and they can be focused upon a different sort of Schtick in order to make the differences prominent. Clerics are divine and use holy symbols; Druids are Nature Schtick; Illusionists are Phantasm, Mind, Tricks in their focus; Necromancers deal with dead... the Witch ought to be unique in their aspects (witch's brew, cavorting with the underworld, dancing naked in the forest, brooms, black cats, Hermione Granger, whatever).

What I am saying is that I like the idea of Witches do their "thing" with a sort of witch's brew trappings... but these are "spells" nonetheless in the sense of making it work in scalable and balanced manners in line with the other stock classes...

And Of Course, just my 2 cents on these ideas... not meant as pressure. I Love the stuff regardless.

[LibraryLass]

No, what you're saying there makes perfect sense to me when you put it that way-- it's just a matter of applying it. I dunno, I'll see what I can do in draft 4.

[Solomoriah]

It seems against the ethos of BFRPG to make such a hefty supplement when something that's already in place would work.

Someone else who understands! Excellent!

[SmootRK]

It seems against the ethos of BFRPG to make such a hefty supplement when something that's already in place would work.

Someone else who understands! Excellent!

I agree, in general. The inclusion of spells specific to the class do not really factor into this (as much) in my mind.
The Illusionist needed specific Illusionist Spells, the Druid requires specific Druid Spells, etc. Yes the MU class description in the core rules is fairly brief, but if one were to take it out of the core rules and include it's spells (and the preamble of the spells section that provides additional information (bound hands, ability to speak, etc)) alongside the class description then it would span many pages. The Necromancer is not any more lengthy in its details than the MU if one removes the spells section; likewise for Druid, Illusionist, or even the Fey Mage... in fact they all are written to mirror the details and information flow of their "base-class".

[LibraryLass]

Working on draft 4 tonight-- hopefully to become release 1.

[LibraryLass]

Okay... well, I was doing that, but I fell on a rough patch and haven't really been able to get things done.