Basic Fantasy RPG Forums

That looks great! Shonuff, do you have any game mechanic ideas that you would like to see incorporated into these guys?

I can see keeping the AC stuff pretty much as is (essentially Natural Leather Armor, with Rear AC effectively equal to Plate).
While roughly 5' in height in normal stature, their necks can stretch out to make them 8' tall fully stretched for short periods of time, with more comfortable ranges from 5' to 7'.

I can see a potent bite attack (1d6), perhaps throwing in something like any time a natural 20 is rolled when attacking, in addition to the attack (and potential critical) the Chelonian gets an extra attack against that foe with its bite (roll another attack). Alternatively a Chelonian can choose to bite at the weapon (usually a wooden or wooden shafted weapon) [insert mechanics for this, tbd]

As swampy being, they can do the submerged thing (leaving just nose above water) that Lizard Man gets (getting surprise 1-4 on d6). Also, they hold breath double duration, and have a 30' swim speed (unless encumbered).

Anything more in mind to work into these guys?

The bite attack could be part of a grapple attempt. Having it as an added attack option rather depends on how darting-serpentine you want the necks to be.

I forget, are these guys getting a PC option write-up? If not, you can give them an unarmed attack sequence that includes the bite.

SmootRK wrote:That looks great! Shonuff, do you have any game mechanic ideas that you would like to see incorporated into these guys?

I can see keeping the AC stuff pretty much as is (essentially Natural Leather Armor, with Rear AC effectively equal to Plate).
While roughly 5' in height in normal stature, their necks can stretch out to make them 8' tall fully stretched for short periods of time, with more comfortable ranges from 5' to 7'.

I can see a potent bite attack (1d6), perhaps throwing in something like any time a natural 20 is rolled when attacking, in addition to the attack (and potential critical) the Chelonian gets an extra attack against that foe with its bite (roll another attack). Alternatively a Chelonian can choose to bite at the weapon (usually a wooden or wooden shafted weapon) [insert mechanics for this, tbd]

As swampy being, they can do the submerged thing (leaving just nose above water) that Lizard Man gets (getting surprise 1-4 on d6). Also, they hold breath double duration, and have a 30' swim speed (unless encumbered).

Anything more in mind to work into these guys?

Sounds good. I like the ideas above. Not sure you want to make sure the "all classes allowed" is good and covered
(penalties for thief skills, move silently, etc) and possible problems with arcane spell casting..(clawed hands may not be conducive to somatic gestures). I can see divine casting, as most don't carry somatic components, and of course fighters and fighter subtypes.

I like how this is shaping up. This race might make it to one of my games sooner then later. The neck stretching bit made me think of the old comment about putting your neck on the line and such.

Question about the stretching neck. How would it get ruled when one of them is grappling and they want to do a head butt with the added assist of the stretching neck? I'm picturing it like a coiled spring unloading into someone's face. Does that sound right?

Perhaps something like:
When Wrestling/Grappling, a Chelonian gets a bite attack (at +2 to hit) in addition to the wrestling effects. There is no Head Butt in the rules, so I will probably not address that (leaving it to GM).

Fyi - they can choose to forgo weapon attack and attack by bite (or if unarmed). They do not get the bonus bite attack under these circumstances.

As to the Classes allowed, for most games using Core Rules, I would suggest that Chelonians may become fighters or clerics; they are ill-suited for thief or magic-user.
If the Game Master allows non-standard classes or the use of optional sub-classes with one or more thief-like abilities the Chelonians suffer a -10% penalty to Hide and Move Silently unless the environment is a watery environment such as lake or river banks, marsh or swamp, or even underground waterways. In these areas, they gain a +15% bonus to Hide and Moving Silently. In addition, Chelonians have -10% penalty to Pick Pockets, Open Locks, and Removal of Traps (but not the first roll for detection of traps).

I generally do not limit class by race in my games, even when ill-suited for the endeavor, but bear in mind I use harsher ability score requirements in order to choose the race in the first place. Here is the exact wording of my house-rules:

Character Races
Importantly, there are no class restrictions for any race. All available classes are open to all races used. Ignore any such references in the core rules or various supplements. While the racial stereotypes remain the cultural norm for most members of a race, individuals from various races, especially those rare individuals that become adventures, are free to become any class even if they might be ill-suited for such endeavors. Within their respective racial communities, such individuals may be treated as peculiar at least, or even ostracized or outlawed in some instances, but this is a factor of role-play, rather than a game-mechanic consideration.

Note that the races listed here have more stringent ability score requirements than as they are found in the Core Rules or various sources. This may effectively limit some class choices for certain races in some situations.

Snapping turtles are terrifying. You just don't understand unless you are within 5' of one and it is shooting that head out at unbelievable speed to snap at you. I once moved a huge snapping turtle off the interstate using a 4' ling trekking pole. Even with my arm extending my adrenaline was flowing at full volume as that thing kept snapping at me as I hooked it to pull it closer and closer to the shoulder of the road.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GO1HD3ebuZs

Seeing how Shonuff is progressing with art for all the stuff that I had in the "New Races Supplement" I am trying to get stuff updated. Here is the Monster Entry for Chelonian (kappa redone):

Chelonian
Armor Class: 14, 17 Rear (13, 17 Rear)
Hit Dice: 1
No. of Attacks: 1
Damage: 1d6 or by weapon +special
Movement: 30' subject to encumbrance, swim 30' (not in armor/encumbered)
No. Appearing: 1d8, Wild 5d8, Lair 5d8
Save As: Fighter: 1 (+2 Poison saves)
Morale: 8
Treasure Type: D
XP: 25

Inhabiting rivers and swampy regions, Chelonians are a race of reptilian humanoids bearing some semblance to long-necked snapping turtles. They are normally content to remain within their own societies, but on occasion a more adventurous individual can be found. They are protected by thick scaly skin as well as a shell-like growth that covers their backside except for their thick tail. Chelonian are about 5 feet tall. However, their necks can stretch out to make them nearly 8 feet tall for very short periods, usually remaining anywhere from 5 to 7 feet tall comfortably.

Chelonians have their own language (Cheloni). Adventuring Chelonian always know Common as well. Chelonians are natural enemies to Lizard Men, often competing fiercely for the same resources.
A Chelonian's thick skin grants them a base Armor Class of 13 (equivalent to leather armor), and their back is especially tough with an AC of 17 (equivalent to plate mail only for rear attacks). Use these figures unless armor worn grants better AC, which in that case use the normal AC value granted by the armor. A shield will be effective normally in either case.

A Chelonian has a vicious bite, causing 1d6 damage. They can choose to either attack with a bite or by weapon, but when utilizing a weapon and they roll a natural 20 that hits (and may subsequently score a critical), they get to roll for a bite attack as well (as an extra attack). If the Chelonian finds itself in a grapple (wrestling), the Chelonian gets a free bite attack roll each round at +2 to hit. A Kappa is resistant to poisons, and have a +2 bonus on those saves.

Chelonian have a natural swim speed of 30 feet while unencumbered (they cannot swim while wearing armor or encumbered), and they can hold their breath twice as long as the normal rules. Their underwater vision is also twice as effective as the other races. Chelonians have the ability to submerge with just eyes and nostrils above the surface of water. When they are able to employ this maneuver, Chelonian surprise on 1-4 on 1d6.

The above statistics are for standard warriors from Chelonian villages. Within such a village one can encounter additional civilian types who have 1-1 Hit Dice, Armor Class 13, and Morale of 7. In addition, for every eight typical warriors, there is a leader type having 3 Hit Dice (145xp) who grants a +1 morale bonus to those he commands. Additional professional or leader types can be found within Chelonian villages, as they can advance as Fighters or Clerics. The larger the community, the higher the level one can expect of its leader types.

And here is the Race Entry as it will appear in a Release 2 of the New Races Supplement.

Chelonian
Description: Inhabiting rivers and swampy regions, Chelonians are a race of reptilian humanoids bearing some semblance to long-necked snapping turtles. They are normally content to remain within their own societies, but on occasion a more adventurous individual can be found. They are protected by thick scaly skin as well as a shell-like growth that covers their backside except for their thick tail. Chelonian are about 5 feet tall. However, their necks can stretch out to make them nearly 8 feet tall for very short periods, usually remaining anywhere from 5 to 7 feet tall comfortably.

Chelonians have their own language (Cheloni). Adventuring Chelonian always know Common as well. Chelonians are natural enemies to Lizard Men, often competing fiercely for the same resources.

Restrictions: Chelonian may become Fighers or Clerics. A Chelonian must have a minimum Constitution score of 11, and are limited to a maximum Dexterity score of 15.

Normal armors will not fit the physique of a Chelonian and they normally use only shields to enhance their defenses. Specially constructed armors can be acquired costing substantially more than listed prices and requiring extra time to build, however armor also hampers their ability to swim.

Special Abilities: A Chelonian's thick skin grants them a base Armor Class of 13 (equivalent to leather armor), and their back is especially tough with an AC of 17 (equivalent to plate mail only for rear attacks). Use these figures unless armor worn grants better AC, which in that case use the normal AC value granted by the armor. A shield will be effective normally in either case.

A Chelonian has a vicious bite, causing 1d6 damage. They can choose to either attack with a bite or by weapon, but when utilizing a weapon and they roll a natural 20 that hits (and may subsequently score a critical), they get to roll for a bite attack as well (as an extra attack). If the Chelonian finds itself in a grapple (wrestling), the Chelonian gets a free bite attack roll each round at +2 to hit. If the Game Master utilizes specialization rules (such as those found in the Combat Options Supplement), then Chelonian Fighters may apply specialization ranks to their bite attack.

Chelonian have a natural swim speed of 30 feet while unencumbered (they cannot swim while wearing armor or encumbered), and they can hold their breath twice as long as the normal rules. Their underwater vision is also twice as effective as the other races. Chelonians have the ability to submerge with just eyes and nostrils above the surface of water. When they are able to employ this maneuver, Chelonian surprise on 1-4 on 1d6.

Thief Ability Adjustments: Normally Chelonian cannot become Thieves, but if the Game Master allows non-standard class choices or utilizes optional sub-classes that have one or more thief-like abilities, then the following adjustments apply. Chelonian physique does not lend itself to concealment in most environments, so they suffer a -10% penalty to Hide and Move Silently unless the environment is a watery environment such as lake or river banks, marsh or swamp, or even underground waterways. In these areas, they gain a +15% bonus to Hide and Moving Silently. In addition, Chelonians have -10% penalty to Pick Pockets, Open Locks, and Removal of Traps (but not the first roll for detection of traps)

Saving Throws: Chelonian saves are at +2 vs. Poison

OK then, the Chelonian have made the transition into the Field Guide for their monster entries. And now I have the New Races Document updated with their new info:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=125

Both places the files on the forum posts are the newest versions... at some point soon, the New Races Supplement will get updated properly on the download page or perhaps put into the Showcase section.