Basic Fantasy RPG Forums

Gold is pretty malleable. I don't know if I would want to keep my most important information stored on it. Of course, it will not tarnish or rust.

Hywaywolf wrote:LL, I am not sure what you are agreeing to . M/U use a sword without the AB or MU using a sword with a -4 to hit?


My thoughts on the fighters progression of the AB is that they get better than others because they fight more in campaigns, and not only because they train more. It does very little to distinguish between the years of sword training knights go through and the years of sword training MUs don't go through.

Because the adventuring life is often brutal and dangerous, it stands to reason that anyone who wanted to become an adventurer would make sure to get at least a basic level of combat training. This is further supported by the fact that there are already rules in place for people who haven't undergone any amount of training-- the Normal Man (see Page 47 of the core rules, release 77), and even first-level thieves, clerics, and magic-users attack better than they do (though if one wanted to houserule otherwise with the explanation that they have outright superior training from the start, that would make sense to me).

When a MU gains a level they get another spell. When the fighter gains a level they only get a slightly better AB. I know they get HPs and better saves,too but so does the MU I am only talking about things that one class gets that the other doesn't

Fighters' attack bonuses advance a lot faster and a lot further, and they have more HP, not to mention have better armor proficiencies. This means they hit more often, get hit less often, and when they do get hit they can survive it better.
Though I do agree it doesn't hurt to give them a little something extra, and I usually do.

MedievalMan wrote:

Joe the Rat wrote:Well, it is a bit heavy for transport, but I could see the most valuable (and centrally located) of writings etched on gold plates. One more reason to hate the goblins - they just melt them down.

That's a good point. Does anyone know if bronze is lighter weight than gold? I know bronze also stands corrosion well, and even though it is difficult to make in large quantities I could see dwarves using it.

Bronze is alloyed from tin and copper, both of which are much, much lighter than gold.

From page 8, "Magic users are the worst of all classes at fighting; hours spent studying massive tomes of magic do not lead a character to become strong or adept at weapons." Also, in quite a few of my games the MU never attended to go adventuring. Life forced them out of study prematurely and/or they are just on a jaunt to find some magical tome or something. They never expected to be fighting.

on the second note. Yes the fighter grows more powerful, but a 10th level MU is way more powerful than a 11th level fighter.

Hywaywolf wrote:From page 8, "Magic users are the worst of all classes at fighting; hours spent studying massive tomes of magic do not lead a character to become strong or adept at weapons."

As I said, having a first-level Magic-user attack as a Normal Man would not be an unreasonable house rule. The reason to limit them to staves and daggers in particular is, as far as I can see it, pretty much a balancing measure-- both weapons do very little damage in the first place. But I think that's a weakness of variable weapon damage-- there's no good reason for a Fighter to specialize in knives or clubs.

on the second note. Yes the fighter grows more powerful, but a 10th level MU is way more powerful than a 11th level fighter.

No, I agree with you, a fighter is underpowered at higher levels... But I think this is a slightly more effective balancing measure than weapon proficiencies, because a fighter starts out more powerful and levels quickly, whereas a Magic-user starts out weak and takes longer to level but is more powerful once she manages to get into higher levels. It's still not a perfect balance, but there are other things that can be done about that.

MedievalMan wrote:

It was my Magic-User Options supplement. I've just put a candidate for the third release in the Project Feedback thread, if you want to take a look.

I just read it. Looks fine to me, heck I think I used an older version of it in one of my games before. The magic bolt for certain I used. I don't see any problem with "gameable material" with this version.

Cool; that was the goal. Thanks for checking it!

As I said, having a first-level Magic-user attack as a Normal Man would not be an unreasonable house rule. The reason to limit them to staves and daggers in particular is, as far as I can see it, pretty much a balancing measure-- both weapons do very little damage in the first place. But I think that's a weakness of variable weapon damage-- there's no good reason for a Fighter to specialize in knives or clubs.

I think the bolded part is where we two see things differently. To me, the MU is less than a normal man when it comes to fighting and handling weapons. If a woodsman, carpenter, blacksmith, farmer, sailor, etc got into a fight with a magicians apprentice they would stomp that tome hound into a bloody pulp and it wouldn't even be close. Years of swinging an ax or hammer, plowing a field, or hammering metal next to a furnace would put on muscle and endurance that a bookworm wouldn't develop, nor would they build in the muscle memory of swinging heavy tools. It only stands to reason that a 'normal' normal man would take to weapons faster than a school student.

and Fighters would not specialize in knives or clubs, but they would train with them none the less. Just not as much as their weapon of choice. That's why specialization supplements give them a +1 to their special weapon. They are extra trained in that weapon.

Lots of good ideas on printing. Metal plates make a lot of sense for dwarves, but gold and silver are very malleable. Lead would probably be better; soft enough to work with, but less malleable than gold or silver.

On moveable type, I think in the end humans would invent it first. All of the races would innovate, but humans really are the innovative race. They're short-lived, impulsive, impatient even, compared to elves and dwarves. Or, maybe gnomes would come up with it.

I see dwarves as being very good at craft, at taking a long time to develop the perfect way to do something and then sticking with it until the times forced them to change, or until some dwarven genius pushed them forward.

That's just my view of them, of course. I'll need to look up the Mystara dwarves gazetteer and the Glantri gazetteer to see what they have.

On the MU weapons discussion, I'd be more than happy to have this conversation over on the MU Options thread.

Here's the latest post over there.

And while you're there, check out my draft for the 3rd release. It needs comments.

EDIT: It has 7 different combat options for MUs, if that's any incentive.

Currently I am rereading MERP Moria The Dwarven City for inspirations. Its cool all the pseudo-tech that the dwarves created. Stuff like massive mining drills powered by water wheels, counter-weight elevators, and hand powered mining carts. All very cool and dwarvish.

I wonder what the long term health effects would be of using lead for books?