Cleric Options

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Dimirag
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Re: Cleric Options

Post Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:47 pm

I was thinking on proposing to move all the showcase/worshop related discussion but Hywaywolf beat me to it... :D
Sorry for any misspelling or writing error, I am not a native English speaker
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artikid
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Re: Cleric Options

Post Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:47 pm

No problem Hywaywolf,
I guess I agree with you, as Smoot pointed out is largely a question of the meaning we attach to words.
SmootRK wrote:One does not build furniture in the showroom (ie.showcase section)... that stuff belongs back in the workshop (ie forum). The best (and official) stuff goes into the locked display cabinets (ie downloads of 'official' stuff).
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Re: Cleric Options

Post Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:19 pm

This is mostly pretty solid. I like having the option of specialty priests with different powers, it's always helped the cleric feel less implicitly Christian to me, which is a plus for fantasy worlds.
Good work on the holy water also.
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Re: Cleric Options

Post Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:29 pm

It needs editing, and perhaps some balance adjustments, but it's a very solid document.
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artikid
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Re: Cleric Options

Post Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:24 am

Hi everybody,
Release 2 is up.
I did some balancing and slightly expanded the creation of holy water and stoups.
Cheers
artikid
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artikid
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Re: Cleric Options

Post Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:09 am

The current main balancing issues IMHO are:
The awe power.
The fact that a cleric could get 3 powers at first level and +15% to XP. This is patently game-breaking as the MU looks as a very poor choice for characters that want access to magic.

I think Awe could be fixed this way: either it gets the Charm spell or it gets the bonus to reaction, hiring and morale

Fixing the number of powers/Xp thing is harder: I like the idea that a Cleric can have more than one power at the expense of weapon/armor proficiency, but this is to much.
I probably should simply state that for any kind of armor, weapon or shield limit you receive one power each, with no XP adjustments. But this looks too simple IMHO.

Another option is to leave things as they are and delay the access to powers: the first is at 1st level, the second at 3rd, the third at 6th.
Spell like powers would then be usable once per day at level (x), twice per day at level (x+2), thrice at level (x+5).
I like this better.

What do you think?
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artikid
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Re: Cleric Options

Post Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:49 am

Had some extra spare time... so third time is the Charm?
Release 3 is up.
Cheers
artikid
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SmootRK
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Re: Cleric Options

Post Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:28 am

The layering of the abilities with the Access Level mechanism you put in, adds a layer of complexity but certainly gives some degree of control over the power levels. It remains a juggling act to get powers for unique sorts of clerics/pantheons for sure.

While I doubt that I will simply say, x y and z from cleric options are available for my players... I can see where this document will help greatly in building my unique "cleric" classes (as I did back in ad&d play). Rather than just subjectively choosing, I can now follow a formula or recipe for building the classes. Give here, take there, and presto you got your clerics of your particular deity of your campaign.

Some additional changes to consider (and how one can apply):
Reduced Hit Dice (from d6 to d5/d4) as trade for more or more powerful abilities
Increased Hit Dice (from d6 to d8) for war, soldiers, barbarians etc.
Spells at first level (use MU spells/day chart)

cloistered cleric - academic cleric, uses MU spell progression (trade for reduced hd to d4), additional spells from MU list added (of scholarly sorts), reduced weaponry and armor choices (blunt MU choices and no armor). Then... one begins adding the details for the particular deity. I had worked on a similar sort of 'more magical but wimpier cleric' . The more militant 'true clerics' were the crusading holy men types.

Other things to consider,
Lore (like a bard ability, at least regarding matters of religion, foes/heroes of religious nature.

There is so so much that one can do to make clerics/priests/temple guards extraordinarily interesting in a campaign, but it requires work and some design for the pantheon. Your document can come in handy in making these choices in logical ways.

Of side note, but related to this document... I would be very interested in how one would apply the concepts of this document to the simple pantheon/religion framework given in Morgansfoot (which has probably the best representation of religion for a 'basic' game that I have seen. Normal plain-Jane clerics fit perfectly within Solo's little mini-campaign setting).
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artikid
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Re: Cleric Options

Post Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:13 am

SmootRK wrote:The layering of the abilities with the Access Level mechanism you put in, adds a layer of complexity but certainly gives some degree of control over the power levels. It remains a juggling act to get powers for unique sorts of clerics/pantheons for sure.
I was inspired by how AD&D dealt with druids.
I'm not still entirely sold on it however, It's too complex.
Would a 10yrs. old GM feel comfortable with it?
I doubt it, so I may go through another revision that simplifies the whole system and does away with Acess levels.
As much as I didn't like it in the first place, a division between minor and major powers may be in order.
SmootRK wrote: Some additional changes to consider (and how one can apply):
Reduced Hit Dice (from d6 to d5/d4) as trade for more or more powerful abilities
Increased Hit Dice (from d6 to d8) for war, soldiers, barbarians etc.
Spells at first level (use MU spells/day chart)
I'm afraid I'm not going to do any of these: a cleric to me is d6 HD and no spells at first level.
EDIT: I still don't like the idea of handing out an XP bonus, however I think an experienced GM could insert these options as well if he wanted ;P
SmootRK wrote:
Other things to consider,
Lore (like a bard ability, at least regarding matters of religion, foes/heroes of religious nature.
Good idea, I'll slip it in in next release
SmootRK wrote:
There is so so much that one can do to make clerics/priests/temple guards extraordinarily interesting in a campaign, but it requires work and some design for the pantheon. Your document can come in handy in making these choices in logical ways.
Thanks :)
SmootRK wrote:
Of side note, but related to this document... I would be very interested in how one would apply the concepts of this document to the simple pantheon/religion framework given in Morgansfoot (which has probably the best representation of religion for a 'basic' game that I have seen. Normal plain-Jane clerics fit perfectly within Solo's little mini-campaign setting).
Nice touch, i'd like to hear Chris's opinion on this (and the whole updated document as it stands now)

Cheers
artikid
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Dimirag
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Re: Cleric Options

Post Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:35 am

Instead of changing the XP maybe we can "toy" with not only the amount of powers but how often the cleric gets to use them and the rate at which they are granted?

Another Idea: Spontaneous Casting: The Cleric gets a number of Divinely related spells which he can cast without any previous preparation.
This will make that the granted powers work as powers and not as extra spells.

BTW The file is under Supplements: Classes, shouldn't it be on Supplements: Rules?
Sorry for any misspelling or writing error, I am not a native English speaker
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