Basic Fantasy RPG Forums

Solomoriah wrote:Changing to Scribus would be a massive undertaking, and I'm comfortable with the current workflow.

Yeah, Scribus has a steep learning curve (well, compared to Libre Office, etc.).

On the spellbook, here is what I currently think:

My first choice:
Spellbook (12.5"x10", leather bound w/ wood covers, locking iron clasp & key, 128 pages, 1 lvl / page), 25 gp, 2 lbs

Or, simpler:
Spellbook (12.5"x10", leather bound, 128 pages, 1 lvl / page), 25 gp, 1 lb

I like the wood covers & iron clasp because this is an extremely valuable book when it's loaded w/ spells. If you're hauling it through dungeons, you want something that can take a broadsword stroke. Also, it adds thickness; it would be about 1" thick this way, even though it only has 64 sheets in it (1 sheet = 2 pages).

However, the simpler description might be more in keeping w/ BF's style.

The value of the book was the reason I proposed the oilskin satchel - you don't want all those spells washed away because you got dunked in a river. But again, I don't think the satchel is essential.

Solomoriah wrote:Wow, that was fast. You say you reviewed both DF and this forum, but the links you provided are all to this site. Should I therefore assume there were no errata there that were not also listed here?

ALSO, you aren't in the list of credits, are you? If not, I need to add you to the proofreaders. Please PM me how you want to be credited. Thanks!

That is correct; there were no apparent fixes presented in the DF threads, just suggestions and opinions for changes. I'll re-check them just to make sure I didn't miss anything, as well as start a read-through of r77 for anything I can find.

This is the first of my contributions to BFRPG so far, I'll PM you.

Solomoriah wrote:

chiisu81 wrote:http://basicfantasy.org/forums/viewtopi ... t=40#p5604
"I'll agree that the information presented for saving throws might be a bit skimpy"

This will only get fixed if someone volunteers to write the additional material; I'm happy with the section as is, but I'd be just as happy to incorporate extra instructional material if such were to appear.

chiisu81 wrote:http://basicfantasy.org/forums/viewtopi ... t=40#p5604
"Indeed, it's a bit awkward. I'll admit that you are not the first person to ask for more details about thief abilities; I just haven't written text that I like."

Here's a place I'd love to have a bit more explanation, even though it will break the page. Anyone want to have a go at it?

chiisu81 wrote:viewtopic.php?f=2&t=145&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=80#p7047
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=145&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=90#p7075
Listening at doors missing, add to Adventure section

Here's my current wording, added to the Doors part of the Adventure section. I may revise it some before 3rd Edition sees print, as I'm not 100% happy with it.

3rd Edition wrote:A careful character might choose to listen at a door before opening it. Thieves have a special ability, Listen, which should be applied if the listener is a Thief. For other characters, the GM rolls 1d6, with 1 indicating success. Sounds heard might include voices, footsteps, or any other sound the GM considers appropriate. Of course, the room beyond the door might really be silent; thus, the Game Master must make the roll, so that a roll of 1 in such a case will not give anything away to the players.

Just downloaded r77, this weekend I'll check into these sections and see what I can do.

This my first post on 3rd ed(there will be more ).Firstly top job that man chiisu81.
Solo hows this for a easy(& not totally daft I think?) way out of your lay out problems.
Firstly just fix errata on all sections which won't cause layout probs will it?(accept monster section I can't see how with extra info + Artwork you can avoid that.And thank you for doing this by the way).
Then put all new changes,tweaks, equipment & optional rules etc into a new section(just a page or two I expect) at the back call it something catchy like Expert Fantasy .Then put that supplement(inc errata notes) alongside the 2nd ed download and we can all print it out and pop it into our old books Job Done .This may not be slick from a layout point of view(as a coherent new book) but it leaves the original game intact and gives a easy way for everyone else to come up to speed.
I don't think you should worry to much about making things obsolete As you give every thing away free & without Internet access you can't even find BF if you see what I'm getting at.

Back to the Clerics vs Undead: One thing I would really like is something like the increment on the 2d6 used to see how many HD of undead are turned (like on the RC).
BTW: If my time allows it I'll make a new table incorporating both the d20 and 2d6 roll into one d20 roll similar to how turning works on 3.X but with a table resembling previous editions).

Sir Bedivere wrote:My choice would be:
Spellbook (12.5"x10", leather bound w/ wood covers & locking iron clasp, 128 pages, 1 lvl / page), 25 gp, 2 lbs

Or, we could make it simpler:
Spellbook (12.5"x10", leather bound, 128 pages, 1 lvl / page), 25 gp, 2 lbs [Edit: Let's make it 1 lb; 2 lbs above accounted for the wood & iron.]

EDIT: BTW, in R76, paper is 1 gp / sheet, but no size is specified. For the cost to work out between that and the spellbook above, that sheet of paper needs to be about 25"x20". That's actually a good standard size for the local paper makers to make it in; anything smaller would be cut to size. (For those keeping track, a page is one side of a sheet. Our 128-page spell book would only have 64 sheets in it; it's tall & wide, but very thin.)

They way books are bound, it's more like 32 sheets (probably 12" x 20") folded and stitched - each sheet making 4 pages/2 "sheets" in the book. It's actually the binding that's the expensive part of the construction - a well-made book can be fairly labor-intensive. I agree on splitting the difference on weight. When in doubt, one pound.

Sir Bedivere wrote:I don't know if we really need the satchel. If we keep it, though, oilskin is oil-coated canvas (or sail cloth or something similar), not leather.

I'll be sure to adjust that on mine. I would say oilskin or leather - from a storage standpoint they should proof about the same in a dungeon environment.

For what it's worth, one sheet of modern printer paper (8.5"x11.5") weighs .16 ounces, or 100 sheets to the pound.

Handmade paper would be thicker, though.

Solomoriah wrote:Handmade paper would be thicker, though.

Yeah, but it's useful to start from.

NB: I edited this for clarity. I really have to stop posting in the middle of the night.

Joe the Rat wrote:They way books are bound, it's more like 32 sheets (probably 12" x 20") folded and stitched - each sheet making 4 pages/2 "sheets" in the book. It's actually the binding that's the expensive part of the construction - a well-made book can be fairly labor-intensive.

Okay, you've out-pedanted me (not a small admission, by the way ). If you want to be technical, the sheet size would be 25"x20" (that is actually one historical size for paper). For this book, that sheet would be cut in half. Two or four (usually) half-sheets would often be stacked and then folded in half and stitched. Then they were trimmed and bound together into a book. When I said 1 sheet = 2 pages, I was using modern terminology; you're right that historically a folded sheet made 2 leaves, and each side of a leaf was one page.

LibraryLass wrote:For what it's worth, one sheet of modern printer paper (8.5"x11.5") weighs .16 ounces, or 100 sheets to the pound.

That's not too far off my estimates. 64 leaves of heavier paper could be a pound, though maybe a little more. The full leather binding w/ wood covers & iron clasp could be another pound.

The sizes, weights, and binding I proposed came from research I did into medieval books, including standard paper sizes, parchment weight, binding materials, etc.; I didn't just pick numbers at random. The physical description of the book comes from an actual medieval book I saw in an archive once. However, instead of using exact weights, etc., I rounded things off for the game to make the bookkeeping easier (pun intended).

There's actually a thread somewhere in the forums where I go into a certain amount of pedantic detail about medieval books, if anyone is interested. At one point I royally screwed up the math and had to go back and redo it all, though, so beware. But great fun, if you're into that sort of thing.

I also proposed a "Scriptoria and Scribes" adventure module, which I'm in the beginning stages of thinking about planning; if you're interested in helping, let me know.