Basic Fantasy RPG Forums

Solomoriah wrote:It's not a question of profile... it's more a question of archetype.

I can't remember ever reading a story where the hero put on brigandine, or banded armor, or whatever; heros wear plate, or they wear chainmail, and sneaky thiefy characters wear leather or other quiet forms of protection.

This is why I'm not even convinced that more types are in any way better. I don't see a fictional basis for the extra types, and as far as a historical basis, the historical record is hardly reliable on the subject.

I swear I have, but I can't think of where exactly. Maybe Fafhrd had some for a while? Who knows. It seems the logical intermediate if intermediates we were to have (and personally I'd rather we did not).

Okay, I've put together a few selections from the Equipment Emporium that I think would be worth considering for the 3rd edition release. You can pull a copy of it from here:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/106874863/R76%2 ... 0ideas.odt

A quick note: I didn't bring over the weapon descriptions, but for clarity what I'm calling a morningstar is the spiky-headed mace (the sort that causes puncture wounds), and a flail is any ball-and-chain or segmented rod weapon.

If there's anything here you really want to see, or think should be dropped, please discuss. Also, look at the prices and weights to see if they need adjusting. If you want to discuss the rest of the EE materials, go over here.

I like it. Not an overabundance of stuff but enough to add a little more variety and provide some 'essentials' for different situations.

Good list.

I still think a couple armor types is good. Again, not so much for the pure numbers (although I think they ought to fit between the existing ones just to be 'neat')... but moreso to expand upon interesting descriptions and the expansion of magical armors.

I know, I know, easily house-ruled in via use of Equipment Emporium, Armor Supplement, etc. but I just don't think it breaks the spirit of the game to have more than 3 types of armor in the Basic Rules.... Basic Rules, not "Child's Starter Fantasy Role-Playing Game".

Smoot, I don't know. Honestly, my players have rarely if ever shown an interest in armor outside the three types in the rulebook, even in the days when we ran 1E. Studded leather is the only exception, and as someone else noted, in "real life" studded leather and brigandine aren't that far apart; given that there is just one AC slot between leather and chainmail, if we include studded leather we don't need scale too. I seem to recall that there is some real contention that scale and ring mail (and banded and splinted armor, too) didn't really exist historically... they may have been just artistic license.

More importantly, if we allow studded leather armor, we are giving the thief an extra AC point. If we do that, we at least need to be sure that studded leather is expensive (after all, it's got metal in it) to offset that. Presently, thieves get off cheap in the armor arena. This really only matters at first level, but then many things only matter at first level.

Also, if we add more armor types, we'll need to include a proper explanation of them. Right now we get away without such an explanation.

Additional armor is what supplements are for. No one here really plays without supplements anyway.

Ok I've gone through the threads on DF and here as well. Most of what I sifted through were proposals and personal opinions, while there was actually very little errata/mistakes. Most of the below items are ones that Solo has chimed in on as needing to be fixed/revised/looked at again.
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BFRPG Release 75 Errata:

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http://basicfantasy.org/forums/viewtopi ... t=10#p1747

Add to Elves' description about less chance of being surprised?

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http://basicfantasy.org/forums/viewtopi ... t=10#p2068
http://basicfantasy.org/forums/viewtopi ... t=30#p2230
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=145#p2231

Read Magic vs. Read Languages spells

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http://basicfantasy.org/forums/viewtopi ... t=20#p2109

Revise Snake, Sea Snake name?

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http://basicfantasy.org/forums/viewtopi ... t=40#p5604

"I'll agree that the information presented for saving throws might be a bit skimpy"

related:
http://basicfantasy.org/forums/viewtopi ... t=40#p5645

Location of the savings throws chart

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http://basicfantasy.org/forums/viewtopi ... t=40#p5604

"Indeed, it's a bit awkward. I'll admit that you are not the first person to ask for more details about thief abilities; I just haven't written text that I like."

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viewtopic.php?f=2&t=145#p2159

Troglodyte stench ability?

** fixed in r76, but it says "most character races". Should this be eplicitly stated which races are actually affected? **

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viewtopic.php?f=2&t=145&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=10#p2704

Monster ACs and Movement

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viewtopic.php?f=2&t=145&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=20#p2746

Centaur movement should be 50' and not 60'?

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viewtopic.php?f=2&t=145&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=30#p2779

Various monsters should have Darkvision listed

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viewtopic.php?f=2&t=145&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=20#p2757

Monster armor listings

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viewtopic.php?f=2&t=145&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=60#p6894


Revise Magic Missle wording

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viewtopic.php?f=2&t=145&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=80#p7047
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=145&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=90#p7075

Listening at doors missing, add to Adventure section

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viewtopic.php?f=2&t=145&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=120#p13505
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=145&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=120#p13767

Stunned is not clarified/explained

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viewtopic.php?f=2&t=145&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=150#p18266

Missing section of text in Mapping in 3rd edition but present in 2nd edition

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viewtopic.php?f=19&t=776&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=20#p18276

Efreeti missing Create Flame power

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viewtopic.php?f=19&t=776&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=50#p18427

Pixie needs * instead of *** and its XP changed to 37

RE: Troglodyte stench... you are correct. I would change it to say "all standard" or "standard" character races.

The reason it came out as "most" is because the revision is located in the Monsters as Characters (monster races) supplement, where many new (optional) playable races are located, where a few might be immune to that effect.

Good catch.

SmootRK wrote:Good list.

I still think a couple armor types is good. Again, not so much for the pure numbers (although I think they ought to fit between the existing ones just to be 'neat')... but moreso to expand upon interesting descriptions and the expansion of magical armors.

I know, I know, easily house-ruled in via use of Equipment Emporium, Armor Supplement, etc. but I just don't think it breaks the spirit of the game to have more than 3 types of armor in the Basic Rules.... Basic Rules, not "Child's Starter Fantasy Role-Playing Game".

I think that list feels about right. I might add whip to the weapon list, maybe, but that's the only change that remotely occurs to my mind.

I'm not quite an advocate per se of adding more armor types, but if we did I'd stand by scale as the intermediate between leather and chain and brigandine between chain and plate as a matter of preference. As an armor nerd "studded leather" never quite sat right with me as a concept.

Solomoriah wrote: I seem to recall that there is some real contention that scale and ring mail (and banded and splinted armor, too) didn't really exist historically... they may have been just artistic license.

Scale definitely existed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scale_armor for a little reading.

Ring, splinted armor, and studded leather didn't, they stem from a misunderstanding of how brigandine is made (the studs/rings are actually rivets that hold smallish plates-- about hand-sized-- onto the coat or jerkin, whereas splinted armor was just brigandine with the plates on the outside instead of in). I've heard it argued that banded is supposed to represent Laminar, such as the roman Lorica Segmentata, but my experience with Segmentata is that it's effectively plate for all intents and purposes.