JN1 The Chaotic Caves

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chiisu81
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Re: JN1 The Chaotic Caves

Post Sun Sep 02, 2018 2:35 pm

Started work on r21.
Zozo
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Re: JN1 The Chaotic Caves

Post Sun Sep 02, 2018 4:13 pm

A few more small-time changes:

Page 11: Exploring the Wilderness
This section gives basic rules for exploring the area around the caves and the village, but it does so in a contradictory and potentially confusing way.
Example: a party can move 12 miles in a day. They
walk up the road two squares (2 miles), travel
through the forest for 3 squares (6 miles) and enter
one square of a swamp (3 miles) for a total of 11
miles of movement. If they are surrounded by
swamp and forest, the GM can credit them with
an extra mile of movement the next day, or
otherwise handle the remainder of 1 mile.
Here it deviates from the 1:1 square to mile scale of the module's wilderness map to seemingly use miles not as a measure of distance, but as a measure of how much traveling a party can do in a day. I think it would improve the module to just replace these rules with the ones from the core book that seem geared to do the same job, but are a little more clear and also include the interesting option of conducting forced marches. I won't reproduce them here, but they're on page 38 of the core book.

The difficulty adjustments for various terrain near the Chaotic Caves are more punishing than in the core book as well (like x2/3 speed core vs x1/2 for JN1), but that seems alright. Maybe the undulating landscape here makes things harder. Maybe there are a lot of mosquitoes. Maybe the trees just grow really close together. The JN1 rules also differ in that they set 12 miles as a standard day's move without mention of a forced march, compared to the 8 hours in the core book.

Page 20, Room 6: Chief's Room
The orc chief here conforms to the standard for an orc chief as described on page 109 of the core rulebook, other than his movement rate. Here it's 30', in the core rules (and keeping with the chainmail he's probably wearing given his AC) it's 20'. He also has a +1 to damage (standard in the core book), but without the parenthetical explanation that it's due to his great strength that accompanies other damage bonuses in JN1, like that of the apparently stronger chief on page 21.

Pages 24 and 25, Room 31: Goblin Chief Room
The goblin king here has the same thing going on as the orc in room 6. He's statistically the same as a goblin chief in the core book, but moves at 20' instead of 10'. Goblin kings in the core rules are more powerful, but maybe the players can wreak some havoc and help this guy live up to his self styled title.

Page 25, Room 36: Leader's Room
The bandit leader here is wearing magical chainmail. His current movement rate is 20', it should be 30' due to his magical armor.

Page 26, Room 41: Bandit Lieutenant
The elven thief here is in leather armor but has 14 AC, without explanation for the +1. Maybe give him or her high Dexterity or a mention of using two weapon combat defensively, if Combat Options material is open to inclusion here.

Pages 36 and 37: Main Hall
Three second level fighters in chainmail here have a movement rate of 30' instead of 20'.

Page 39: Master Room
The fourth level magic user here is wearing a cloak of displacement with no mention of armor, encumbering objects, some kind of a limp, etc, and should have a movement rate of 40' instead of 30'. I don't know what the standard is for something like this, but it might also be worthwhile to include a mention of the following power of the cloak of displacement in the description of this fight: the first melee or missile attack by any creature against the wearer will miss.

Further attacks are at -2, and the magic user's AC accounts for this. While your opponent having -2 to hit and you having +2 to AC don't appear to be identical in all cases, it seems adequate for the most likely events here.
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Solomoriah
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Re: JN1 The Chaotic Caves

Post Sun Sep 02, 2018 6:08 pm

Regarding wilderness movement... I'd like to keep the system J.D. has created, but changing the rates to match the Core Rules would be appropriate.
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jdn2006
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Re: JN1 The Chaotic Caves

Post Mon Sep 03, 2018 2:59 pm

chiisu81 wrote:
Sun Sep 02, 2018 2:35 pm
Started work on r21.
There are a number of spaces in front of commas you might look at with a global replace. Such as page 12 or so the special table:

12 1d4 Wolves: AC 13, HD 2 , #At 1 bite , Dam 1d6 , Mv 60' , Sv F2, Ml 8

Plus some double spaces in the text here and there. Some format tables, the others are sloppy editing.
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Solomoriah
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Re: JN1 The Chaotic Caves

Post Mon Sep 03, 2018 4:10 pm

It is almost never necessary, nor a good idea, to press ENTER in LibreOffice to push something to the next page. There are formatting tools for that. If the document is coming to me for layout (which is usually the case, as with this module), leave formatting anomalies alone and I'll fix them.
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chiisu81
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Re: JN1 The Chaotic Caves

Post Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:50 am

Tentative r21 uploaded here.
Edit: replaced with newer upload below.
jdn2006
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Re: JN1 The Chaotic Caves

Post Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:42 am

Solomoriah wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 4:10 pm
It is almost never necessary, nor a good idea, to press ENTER in LibreOffice to push something to the next page. There are formatting tools for that. If the document is coming to me for layout (which is usually the case, as with this module), leave formatting anomalies alone and I'll fix them.
Huh?
jdn2006
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Re: JN1 The Chaotic Caves

Post Tue Sep 04, 2018 12:27 pm

chiisu81 wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:50 am
Tentative r21 uploaded here.
"Page 11: Exploring the Wilderness
This section gives basic rules for exploring the area around the caves and the village, but it does so in a contradictory and potentially confusing way."

Nothing is a rule in any module. The idea behind the funky movement rates is a helpful hint ("One way of tracking..."). It is for those who might find the style of adding up points rather than using fractions. It uses the wilderness map as an example.

The rulebook has been changed since the module was developed. The point values for Desert/Forest/Hills would now be 1.5 and 2.25; and for Clear/Plains/Trail 1 and 1.5; and for Road (Paved) 0.75 and I guess 1 (one) since roads are easier. Those decimals are ugly; were originally less ugly; but I understand the change to the rules.

Originally I had a bunch of rule mongering in my work, but these games and adventures are not about rules but giving the gamers ideas to use and letting them freely simplify or complicate things as desired - and not play by someone else's rules.

Do not take that as criticism. I did mess up details and any help finding them is welcome. There are several instances where I should have used "has been" instead of "was" for example
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Solomoriah
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Re: JN1 The Chaotic Caves

Post Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:08 pm

jdn2006 wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:42 am
Solomoriah wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 4:10 pm
It is almost never necessary, nor a good idea, to press ENTER in LibreOffice to push something to the next page. There are formatting tools for that. If the document is coming to me for layout (which is usually the case, as with this module), leave formatting anomalies alone and I'll fix them.
Huh?
Your paragraph is running off the bottom of the page, and you want it all on the next page... so you press ENTER at the beginning of the paragraph to push it down.

Bad dog, no biscuit. If you want the paragraph to stay together, you use the paragraph options to keep the paragraph together. This way, when the document flow changes, you won't have to find and remove that extra blank paragraph.
My personal site: www.gonnerman.org
jdn2006
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Re: JN1 The Chaotic Caves

Post Thu Sep 06, 2018 12:12 pm

Solomoriah wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:08 pm
jdn2006 wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:42 am
Solomoriah wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 4:10 pm
It is almost never necessary, nor a good idea, to press ENTER in LibreOffice to push something to the next page. There are formatting tools for that. If the document is coming to me for layout (which is usually the case, as with this module), leave formatting anomalies alone and I'll fix them.
Huh?
Your paragraph is running off the bottom of the page, and you want it all on the next page... so you press ENTER at the beginning of the paragraph to push it down.

Bad dog, no biscuit. If you want the paragraph to stay together, you use the paragraph options to keep the paragraph together. This way, when the document flow changes, you won't have to find and remove that extra blank paragraph.
I do not eat dog biscuits and no longer use LibreOffice and let paragraphs run off the page as they wish in my own work. As for the materials I submitted previously I no longer edit them. The tendency to change rules and oblivious comments on formatting in the past with oblivious lack of specifics makes it too annoying for a pastime.
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