Basic Fantasy RPG Forums

Post your comments here for J.D. Neal's adventure "SG4 Saga of the Giants - Fire Giant Forge."

This can now be found in BF3 Strongholds of Sorcery on the Downloads page.

Okay, so I'm going to post the first comment here.

SG4 is the first in the series to introduce the Dark Elves. Anyone familiar with older adventure modules might be expecting them, in an adventure featuring giants, and indeed if you dig back further before the advent of RPG games you'll find svartalfar and giants appearing together in myth.

I'd like to suggest that we look for ways to change this up. Subvert the expectations of players in the SG adventures, so that, should they be expecting dark elves who look and behave like those from the earlier game materials, they'll be surprised (and not necessarily pleasantly). I've already mentioned this to J.D., and he's agreed in principle, but I'd like to get some ideas going here.

J.D. has varied somewhat from the earlier materials... some of his dark elves are color-inverted, pale skinned and dark haired. I did much the same thing when I introduced the dark elves of my world of Nevermore, who are as pure white albino as you might expect of underground dwellers. This is a good start, I think.

But I'm interested in suggestions... anyone?

SmootRK summed up some of the basic concerns in his long post in...

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=522&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=30

As for adding unique ideas about "dark elves", I'm all for it.

As it is, I tested the idea of replacing them with a "snake folk" species, natives of Eromle Island (see attached), given how "dark elves" of any sort could be too much of a copy of modules written by others. Without a continuity (modules devoted to dark elves, which I don't have the time to do) the dark elves (even if legally allowed) are interesting but kind of out of place.

Hmm. "Svartalfar" depicted as something between gnomes and elves might be interesting. Shorter than normal elves, with somewhat pointed ears and nose and chin, fey and clever. To fit the adventure, they have to be plotters... I think that can be made to work.

An idea, anyway. Too soon to nail it down.

My vote would be to use the Svartalfar name - I find a certain coolness in going back to the linguistic roots for stuff like this.

Plotters, schemers, and master smiths. Set them up as the anti-dwarf.

Or set them deep into the fey trappings... One story of the settlement of Ireland features the resident Sidhe brokering a deal with the First King to share the else equally between the races - each taking half. The First King, tricking the Sidhe, claimed the top half (i.e. above the ground) for mankind, forcing the Sidhe to live underground... It would make for a cool legend, at least.

I have to admit that I think there's a certain appeal to going in a different direction than dark elves. This series is an homage to the GDQ line, but there's a fine line that when overstepped will turn from homage to bargain-bin knockoff.

Some alternatives to dark elves:

• A dwarven race, keen on mechanics and supertech (sprawling underground metropoli, colossal mechanical guardians, rayguns, etc.).
• A race of aberrant plotters coming from another dimension; they plant their seeds into other beings via syringes, and when they reach the brain they slowly take over the host.

No matter what path is chosen, I firmly believe that the earlier modules need to contain some foreshadowing regarding the nature of the evil plotters.

I still think I was onto something when I was thinking through the Anubians (Field Guide) for the antagonist race.
- civilized culture (contrary to stuff like Orcs and most standard humanoids)
- culture based on Egyptian Lore is foreign enough to be weird for standard pseudo-medieval types.
- fervently religious (analogy to Lolth worshiping), just insert appropriate deity or Egyptian pantheism (Set, Anubis, etc.)
- as written might be any of the core classes (so all the other mixes that are common with Drow can have counterparts)
- give them special Egyptian Weaponry/Armor with 'drow-like' properties of the underground (Khopesh Swords, Scimitars, Pikes, etc.)

And then the whole underground thing can include interesting fortresses, ziggurats (spelling?), pyramids, obelisks and such... even as inverted pyramids coming down from ceiling in stalactite style.

Anyway, just ideas that swim around in my head as alternate yet congruent concepts to the Drow.

Like I said in that referenced post, Githyanki were something I worked with (long ago) instead of Drow, but WotC claims these as IP.

It's an interesting idea, but I really like the idea of diving deeper into the Norse mythology (or making up something that sort of sounds Norse). Personal thing, I guess. I do see how the Githyanki would work well there.

Solomoriah wrote:It's an interesting idea, but I really like the idea of diving deeper into the Norse mythology (or making up something that sort of sounds Norse). Personal thing, I guess. I do see how the Githyanki would work well there.

Dwarves; theocracy built around the Machine Spirit; from steampunkish to the tech showed in the Thor film; underground fortresses with enormous gates, guarded by mechanical creatures.

Cult of a crow-headed god or Hel's servants; roots of Yggdrasil guarded by supernatural entities.

Or perhaps a stand-in for the Githyanki? Is there such an open source creature?