Libram Magica

Creating game materials? Monsters, spells, classes, adventures? This is the place!
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SmootRK
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Re: Libram Magica

Post Wed May 15, 2013 9:27 am

chiisu81 wrote:One thing I really liked in Labyrinth Lord's AEC is that in the spell lists it's marked which spells are also in the Core book; I think we should note the same here.
Good Idea. We can do that.
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SmootRK
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Re: Libram Magica

Post Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:47 pm

I just uploaded release 2 of Libram Magica.

changes include formatting fixes, a new 7th level spell for Illusionists, denotation of Core Rules entries (via spell lists).

Enjoy
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Gold
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Re: Libram Magica

Post Tue Oct 15, 2013 3:32 am

That upgrade is indeed, very helpful for me. I liked being able to open Libram Magica spell tables and quickly see which spells are in my printed BF core rulebook, and which spells stand-out as the new ones. It's also nice having the original spells IN the book, along with the new ones, while being able to quickly tell which are original and which are new!

I'm making custom spell lists for custom specialized magic-users, and specialty priest cleric druid types. So this is a great resource for my spell shopping across-the-board to recombine in tailored spell lists. For example, in case this sounded murky, the Cleric is nature-oriented and she gets some Druid spells although she is not a druid. One of the magic users is earth-oriented and gets earthy spell effects from any (magic, cleric, druid). And there is a mage who is color-oriented, she gets a few spells from the illusionist charts in addition, while giving up a few from the mage charts.

Thanks for the Libram Magica download of spells. This makes my homebrew game planning easier.
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SmootRK
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Re: Libram Magica

Post Tue Oct 15, 2013 6:16 am

Welcome and thanks for praise.
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chiisu81
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Re: Libram Magica

Post Mon Sep 15, 2014 9:43 am

Since there's no artwork in the Core Rules for the spells, I think this image of Spiritual Hammer should go into the LM:

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1040#p25048
SmootRK wrote:Indeed. Seeing that I have had very sparse time to do much creative work, I would be quite happy to allow others to take charge of a new release of the Libram Magica. My new job duties have had me working a lot of hours and responsibilities that cross over into my personal time; add to that I have a family with 3 children with various school and extracurricular activities... end result is little creative energy over the last year.

Of course a project like the Libram Magica just screams for continued development. Spells, Spells, and More Spells... as I introduce the document on the Showcase Page. I would be overjoyed to see much more added, as well as thrilled if our talented art contributors felt like adding their touches to the document. Given its overall length, this too would make a worthy 'print edition' in the future.
I will very very tentatively raise my hand to volunteer as an editor on this thing if we all would like to see this thing get some more contributions, trimmed up, prettied up with artwork, and maybe even see a print release sometime next year.

I have items right now that must be finished first (Field Guide, help edit Core 3E, contribute and edit AA2 and Strongholds of Sorcery) before I can even begin to take a look at the LM. If I could take over some work for it, is there any way I can take ownership of the LM in the Showcase? Of course it it gets in good enough shape it should be moved to the Downloads page one day...
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SmootRK
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Re: Libram Magica

Post Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:16 pm

chiisu81 wrote:Since there's no artwork in the Core Rules for the spells, I think this image of Spiritual Hammer should go into the LM:

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1040#p25048
SmootRK wrote:Indeed. Seeing that I have had very sparse time to do much creative work, I would be quite happy to allow others to take charge of a new release of the Libram Magica. My new job duties have had me working a lot of hours and responsibilities that cross over into my personal time; add to that I have a family with 3 children with various school and extracurricular activities... end result is little creative energy over the last year.

Of course a project like the Libram Magica just screams for continued development. Spells, Spells, and More Spells... as I introduce the document on the Showcase Page. I would be overjoyed to see much more added, as well as thrilled if our talented art contributors felt like adding their touches to the document. Given its overall length, this too would make a worthy 'print edition' in the future.
I will very very tentatively raise my hand to volunteer as an editor on this thing if we all would like to see this thing get some more contributions, trimmed up, prettied up with artwork, and maybe even see a print release sometime next year.

I have items right now that must be finished first (Field Guide, help edit Core 3E, contribute and edit AA2 and Strongholds of Sorcery) before I can even begin to take a look at the LM. If I could take over some work for it, is there any way I can take ownership of the LM in the Showcase? Of course it it gets in good enough shape it should be moved to the Downloads page one day...
As far as I am concerned, you could begin with the latest drafts (which happen to be the ones on the showcase page). Once I know you have the doc and are ready to upload a new draft with further edits/additions, I could simply delete my project (and any drafts that might have been posted throughout the thread) so that there is no overlap at that point.

Bear in mind that I think some of the material in the Libram Magica could probably use a little playtesting too, or it would at least be beneficial if anyone has been using some of the more obscure spells (especially higher level ones) that they post their opinions on how well they have worked. The lower level spells seem to have good balance; I am just not sure this holds true at the higher ranges (despite being quite a scrooge about balance overall as I worked on this).
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Re: Libram Magica

Post Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:54 pm

Spells are the #2 worst thing (after classes) when it comes to balance testing. It's SO hard to get them right. That's why (1) I still have the New Spells supplement on the Downloads page, and (2) why we don't now, and possibly will never have an in-print book of additional spells. Libram Magica worries me as an "omnibus" work of spells... I specifically do not want it on the Downloads page for fear it will somehow acquire the stamp of being "official."

If, and I do say if, many someones were willing to exhaustively playtest this supplement, I might reconsider. But it's very size works against it... it would be hard to be sure it's "balanced" in the most general sense.

I don't want anyone who has worked on this (and I'm looking at you, Mr. Smoot) to feel I'm denigrating this work. I'm sure it's great. It just worries me a lot. I made an effort with New Spells to keep it small and to be sure the spells included there were well balanced; doing the former made the latter possible.

So please, guys, don't put a lot of effort into getting it ready for print; the burden of playtesting proof is against it right now.
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Re: Libram Magica

Post Mon Sep 15, 2014 9:11 pm

Okay, so having posted all that, I got a fit of conscience and went and downloaded the current PDF. I'm going to revise my earlier statement... I don't like it.

The very first paragraph of new rules material contravenes the intent of the Core Rules. The Core Rules don't allow scrolls to be converted "back" into spell knowledge. They don't prohibit it either. No rule on this was ever supposed to be written. (This does not mean I'm kicking it off the Showcase; after all, the description of the Showcase is "Our best authors, sharing their visions of the game." I stick to my representation of Smoot as one of our best authors.) But presenting that as a rule (even in a work where it says it's entirely optional) is just not acceptable to me.

The next paragraph, about divine spells, describes divine magic in a way that is not entirely consistent with the way I've presented it in the Core Rules, and further in a way I've never actually seen in a game of the era we're emulating. Clerical magic is strictly the result of prayers; a cleric doesn't learn a new spell by reading a book, he or she prays for it, and if the deity allows it, well there you go.

I also do not like the presentation of cantrips/orisons in this sort of work. There are many (myself included) who do not like 0-level spells. Having them as a separate supplement is fine, but I don't like mixing them in with the "normal" spells.

I know I'm coming across all negative here, but honestly I would never use this work in my own game, and I feel it cannibalizes the effort that would otherwise be put into the relevant separate supplements. For instance, if you modify a Necromancer spell in LM, do you go back and fix it in the Necromancer supplement? If you do, you're doubling the work, and if you don't, the spell becomes inconsistent. Damned if you do and damned if you don't. (Of course, if you're a Necromancer, you're damned anyway. But hopefully I've made my point.)
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Re: Libram Magica

Post Mon Sep 15, 2014 9:45 pm

Solo, I don't want to be rude, but that seems a little harsh (I hope you don't ban me for saying that). After all, as you said, it is "Smoot's vision of the game". Obviously you have a different vision. Of course, since you created the game, I suppose you has the final say.

I agree with you on the cleric point, with one exception. There are players whom I have met who are reluctant to bring any religious elements into the game, and instead use rules like this to explain cleric's powers. Now, this is actually another BECMI rule (well, early BECMI). In the original BECMI Basic Rulebook, Clerics gained their power from belief in a cause, and using gods at all was completely optional. Now, you may not care for my BECMIsms, but I still solidly believe that early BECMI (not later products, which were horrible), presented a much better vision of the game than B/X. Still, that is completely my opinion, and is of little relevance.
Thus, I should say that supplementing clerics praying to gods with this is an entirely optional rule. Still, I appreciate that the supplement covers it.

On your first point: I agree whole-heartedly. That should be completely up to the individual GM. Still, I like the fact that it is presented as an optional rule, merely for the fact that new GMs might not even think of said idea.

As for orisons and cantrips, I'm split on them. Part of me hates them (I've never used them in any of my games), but the other part of me can appreciate the fact that some players like them (I'm not saying all, but as I've said before, one of BFRPG's greatest assets is it's customizability to many styles). I think that, as long as they are separated from the regular spells, there is no reason not to have them in the same supplement or book.

In the end, I feel that it would truly be beneficial to make this official. I feel that presenting multiple official visions for the game, even if most are completely optional, truly adds to the game's collaborative nature.
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Re: Libram Magica

Post Mon Sep 15, 2014 9:55 pm

I would prefer to have different supplements for the different parts, spell research and learning on one side, zero level spells on other, seventh level spell on another and finally the spells on its own supplement.

I don't care for zero level spell (I don't use them, don't like them) and I'm thinking on using a different spell research/learning system, so, having only the spells without any of the things I don't use (and whose removal don't affect the spells) is the best thing to me.

I would also prefer that the supplement use only reference to the core classes and rules and that the LM does not include core spells.
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