Player Compendium

Creating game materials? Monsters, spells, classes, adventures? This is the place!
daryen
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Player Compendium

Post Wed Dec 16, 2020 6:22 pm

As Solo has made clear in general discussions (with a permanent thread no less), he will not make any kind of "Advanced" or "Companion" document for Basic Fantasy. And for good reasons, I might add. So, I have tried to see if I can create one as an "adjunct" work. In theory, this is like a "setting rules" document (like Sword & Board or Glain Companion), but I am intentionally doing this differently. This document has no "house rules" or rules for "how I run it". This is literally just a compendium of race and class documents from the Downloads page. (And I specifically restricted myself to the Downloads page.) I have no made any edits or changes to the contents of those documents, except to reformat them into a coherent whole.

Specifically, it includes the following items:
  • Gnomes, Half-Humans, New Races, and Monsters as Characters Supplements
  • Druid, Illusionist, Necromancer, Spellcasters, Assassins, and Rangers and Paladins Supplements.
  • New Spells
And now I realize I missed Barbarians and Scouts. I will get those included soon.

Anyway, I am going to post this, despite the missing classes, to get input on whether this is worth finishing or not. Except for those two missing classes, it should be reasonably complete, and I will add them before I hit rev "1.0".

Also, assuming this is worth doing, I will need some art. I need something for the front page (the scroll is just a place-holder for the moment), and I need permission to reuse any of the art from the original documents. (Like, for example, it would be great if I can put all of the images back for the Monsters as Characters section.)

Thanks!
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daryen
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Re: Player Compendium

Post Wed Dec 16, 2020 6:51 pm

OK, that was easier than I thought it would be. I added Barbarian and Scout.
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SmootRK
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Re: Player Compendium

Post Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:26 pm

So there are several versions of Ranger (for instance, I have written my own and have a comparable version as Quasi-class), which one appears in your document? Is Fey-Mage or Sorcerer included?... again both do the same things essentially. If you are choosing one, then you are not doing a compendium but Your House Rules (ie your choices of supplements).

This is the root of why there is no such compendium so far. Someone has to decide... or include EVERYTHING. Most of us around here just don't bother to go down that path... at least with intension of making it some sort of shared document.

Bear in mind, I am not knocking what you are doing. I have my own such compendium of my choices that include the races I like, classes (versions) I prefer, etc. It is effectively my own Smoot Player's Handbook for BFRPG... but you won't find this on Downloads or even in Showcase, though you might find a version of this document somewhere within the forums in a random post, shared because somebody inquired directly/indirectly about such topics.

But if you are trying to develop something that you feel others like/want/need, then you always going to have disagreements in content. A HUGE benefit of BFRPG is the incremental or piecemeal manner in which optional material is disseminated. After some time, most realize this is a paramount point of distinction for BFRPG (from other such games/editions). Each GM or group has total incremental control over the contents of their own game... which is good.
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daryen
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Re: Player Compendium

Post Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:57 pm

I stated my sources: races and classes from the Downloads page. I took everything related to races and classes (including spells) from the Downloads page. No Showcase stuff, not even my own. The point is not to dictate what or how someone uses it. The entire point is just to collect the Downloads page stuff in one easy to grab package. No house rules or modifications of what is there. It is literally just those files smooshed together.

The sole exceptions are the Quasi-Classes and the 0 level spells. I didn't include Quasi-Classes because they aren't actually classes. It is more of a toolkit, and it didn't fit with the "races and classes" idea. I didn't include the 0 level spells because, again, it is more toolkit-ish. I did include New Spells because it is directly based on and expands the classes included. That said, I can be talked into both. (I expect I'll have to include the 0 level spells.)

But again: no Showcase; no house rules; no toolkits. Just the Downloads page races and classes. No modifications to the sources.
Last edited by daryen on Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
daryen
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Re: Player Compendium

Post Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:59 pm

As for "making decisions", I'm not really. Solo has already made the decisions for me by what is included on the Downloads page and what is not. I am simply accepting those decisions and collating them.
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Dimirag
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Re: Player Compendium

Post Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:28 pm

The entire point is just to collect the Downloads page stuff in one easy to grab package
To me, there should not be such a thing for download, I'm ok if its done and keep privately or if its a compendium of house-rules.
One of BFRPG beauties is that it has an "a la carte" structure, people wanting to expand beyond the core rulebook has lots of options, combining everything on one place means not putting stuff from other places, and such robs this "a la carte" property.
If one wants to create a "downloading package" just doing a rar/zip file would be best
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Solomoriah
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Re: Player Compendium

Post Thu Dec 17, 2020 12:10 am

daryen wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:59 pm As for "making decisions", I'm not really. Solo has already made the decisions for me by what is included on the Downloads page and what is not. I am simply accepting those decisions and collating them.
But as Smoot has pointed out, there are multiple Downloads page versions of some classes. The question is a valid one... which versions did you choose, and which did you leave out? Or if you included all of them, how do you tell them apart?
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daryen
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Re: Player Compendium

Post Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:09 am

Solomoriah wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 12:10 am
daryen wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:59 pm As for "making decisions", I'm not really. Solo has already made the decisions for me by what is included on the Downloads page and what is not. I am simply accepting those decisions and collating them.
But as Smoot has pointed out, there are multiple Downloads page versions of some classes. The question is a valid one... which versions did you choose, and which did you leave out? Or if you included all of them, how do you tell them apart?
No, there are not multiple versions of classes on the Downloads page. There is only one version of each class on the Downloads page. Those are the ones I used.

Yes, I did make one decision for inclusion: use only Races and Classes and New Spells. But, I did that all only from those provided on the Downloads page. So, I am being consistent.

Now, yes, there is an alternative way to accomplish similar results to some of those classes using the Quasi-Classes Supplement. But, those are NOT classes (as stated directly within the document itself), they are what Pathfinder calls Archetypes. Sure, they are class-related, but they are not classes in and of themselves. So, Quasi-Classes was not included.

And, even if I did include them (which would not actually be that hard), it *still* wouldn't have multiple of the same classes. Yes, you could have both a Barbarian and a Barbaric Fighter, but those are *not* the same. They are completely different, even if they fill the same niche. And ... actually, that's the only potential overlap. (Or does a Holy Fighter count as a Paladin analog?) Which while similar are still quite different.

So, no, there are no duplicate classes on the Downloads page. So, no, there is nothing to choose between. In fact, why is there this common insistence that there are multiple versions of classes on the Downloads page? I am very confused by this. What am I missing?
daryen
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Re: Player Compendium

Post Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:21 am

Dimirag wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:28 pm
The entire point is just to collect the Downloads page stuff in one easy to grab package
To me, there should not be such a thing for download, I'm ok if its done and keep privately or if its a compendium of house-rules.
One of BFRPG beauties is that it has an "a la carte" structure, people wanting to expand beyond the core rulebook has lots of options, combining everything on one place means not putting stuff from other places, and such robs this "a la carte" property.
If one wants to create a "downloading package" just doing a rar/zip file would be best
First know that this will never show up on the Downloads page, and I am *not* suggesting that it should. In effect, it will end up being treated as a compendium of house rules, even though it is intended for a different kind of purpose.

But, I don't understand this concern about the "a la carte" structure. Whether these are presented as a single file or multiple files, the contents are, by the very nature of Basic Fantasy itself, "a la carte". No one can force a GM to include or not include something irrespective of whether things are stored in a single file or multiple files. It doesn't change or alter that property of the game. In fact, it is impossible for this file to alter that property of the game.

As for prioritizing things (which you don't state but seem to imply), that is already done by separating out the Downloads page and the Showcase page. Everything on the Downloads page is, by definition and literal positioning, given higher priority and prestige than anything on the Showcase page. That this document accentuates this distinction is irrelevant to the fact that it has already been done.
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Dimirag
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Re: Player Compendium

Post Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:42 am

First know that this will never show up on the Downloads page, and I am *not* suggesting that it should
I'm not saying that, I'm saying for general download, wherever it may be. Rules compilations are a "no no".
In effect, it will end up being treated as a compendium of house rules, even though it is intended for a different kind of purpose.
This document has no "house rules" or rules for "how I run it"
House rules are needed if you are going to present the file as a compendium of house rules... a rules compendium without new rules is just a rules compendium unless you present it as a "rules addendum for playing in X world/campaign" which should include info about said world or campaign.
But, I don't understand this concern about the "a la carte" structure. Whether these are presented as a single file or multiple files, the contents are, by the very nature of Basic Fantasy itself, "a la carte". No one can force a GM to include or not include something irrespective of whether things are stored in a single file or multiple files. It doesn't change or alter that property of the game. In fact, it is impossible for this file to alter that property of the game.
It has been spoken before, and the common consensus is that any rule compilation could be taken as "official", "recommended", "the best of", and we try to avoid that.
There are lots of alternative rules across the forum, putting a compilation of some of them may be taken as "this is the best here, no need for further search".
Everything on the Downloads page is, by definition and literal positioning, given higher priority and prestige than anything on the Showcase page.
This proves my point above. That's a misconception of the Download page, Solo himself avoids giving "priority" to thing, the files on the Download page are there because that was the place where everything was place for download, the creation of the Workshop came later, and even later than that the Showcase was born.
Those are "Legacy/Historical", not "better because they are on the Download page"
It was talked years ago above removing the supplements from the Download page, but if Solo choose not to do it he surely had a point besides "they are better than yours" :lol:
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