Rogue - Class Supplement

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cailano
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Rogue - Class Supplement

Post Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:11 am

Hi all. I'm new to the forums but an old hand at RPGs, having cut my teeth on the BECMI set at age nine.

I've been playing a lot of Basic Fantasy RPG lately, and I really like it. As a GM, I love how fast the system is and how easy it is to prepare adventures. I love how it doesn't bog down at higher levels.

And as a Linux guy, I love the open-source vibe!

I thought I'd take a shot at contributing to the community. Allow me to humbly present the Rogue class, meant as an optional alternative to the Thief class. I've tried to follow the style guide as much as possible but it's my first attempt so allow me to apologize in advance for any mistakes.

I'd appreciate any feedback you have. Enjoy!

Note: There are three versions of the Rogue class below. Please let me know which you like best.

EDIT: Made some minor changes to the class for clarity and edited the OGL for correctness.

EDIT: Included version 1.3, which has some clarification on the sneak attack ability, standardized progression on all abilities, and an optional rule for individualized advancement. Also, it's illustrated!

EDIT: Included version X.1, which is a larger deviation from the Thief class in the core rules. The X.1 Rogue has three additional abilities on the Rogue Ability table, but no Rogue can choose more than seven of these abilities. Also includes the optional individualized advancement rules from version 1.3.

- Cai
Attachments
BF-Rogue-Supplement-v1.3.odt
Updated Rogue Class
(1.17 MiB) Downloaded 6 times
BF-Rogue-Supplement-vX.1.odt
Experimental Rogue Class
(32.52 KiB) Downloaded 1 time
BF-Rogue-Supplement-v1.1.odt
Original Rogue Class
(27.97 KiB) Downloaded 22 times
Last edited by cailano on Sun Sep 20, 2020 12:14 am, edited 7 times in total.
Seven
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Re: Rogue - Class Supplement

Post Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:13 am

Maybe Rogues should replace Barbarians in the Open Game License section.
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cailano
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Re: Rogue - Class Supplement

Post Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:46 am

Good catch, thank you. Made a few edits to the OGL where it seemed appropriate. The original post has the edits.
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Bumblepig
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Re: Rogue - Class Supplement

Post Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:02 pm

Welcome!

I really like it. IMO the Thief class is one of the areas that needed a serious re-do after the initial RPG versions. There are other supplements that take different approaches to this, mostly through specialization, but I really like the "generic" approach of a new tweaked core class.

The advantages you've added are good because they're limited in number and would be important to players. I'm not sure if the XP requirement bump you've added is enough to address these new advantages. There are others on this forum that can better assess that from a game balance standpoint. Also, the great thing with BF is now that this is posted people can start using it and give feedback. :)

I love how concise your writeup is. That's at the top of the core class checklist in my book.
The one area you might want to revisit is the Sneak Attack. You mention flank attacks a couple times, but bear in mind the Core Rules never even talks about flank attacks. Also, people might wonder how the Rogue's Sneak Attack relates to Move Silently or Hide abilities, since that's included in the Core Rule's Sneak Attack description. I like the way the Core Rules defines the Sneak Attack, but maybe there's a reason you went with different language for the Rogue. In any case, the sentence you have at the end about GM ruling is important and says it well.

FWIW, here's how you could cover what's currently in the 2 Sneak Attack paragraphs:

++
Rogues can use a Sneak Attack whenever an opponent is unaware of the Rogue’s presence. This is often true when the enemy has its back to the Rogue, but could apply in other cases (e.g. a flanking Sneak Attack while the enemy is distracted fighting another character). [Maybe import some Core Rules language relating Sneak Attack to Move Silent/Hide abilities here.] The GM has the final ruling as to whether or not the Rogue is able to use his or her Sneak Attack ability in a given round.
++

Also, one nitpick: According to the Style Guide, Thief abilities are always capitalized. So for the Rogue I would capitalize Sneak Attack.

Again, I really like it, and I could see providing this as an option to players right now.
Last edited by Bumblepig on Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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cailano
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Re: Rogue - Class Supplement

Post Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:24 pm

Thank you, that's some great feedback. I especially appreciate the advice on the Sneak Attack wording. I'm going to review the core rules and bit and then probably use most or all of the text in your suggestion.

I've been soliciting feedback over on Myth-Weavers as well (where I have a bit more of an established presence) and it's been mostly positive. My hope is that a few people will try this class variant and then get back to me with the results of their play testing.

I hear you on the XP advancement. Currently, it's identical to that of the Cleric. My thought is that the Rogue abilities, while useful, are no more powerful than the Cleric's spells. I'm definitely open to other ideas, that's just what I had going in.
Seven
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Re: Rogue - Class Supplement

Post Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:19 pm

Personally, I would drop the Picket Pocket skill altogether.
It's mostly an urban skill that I associate with the (mostly) non-combatant thief.
The halfling thief is still viable, because of his racial bonuses, but I don't see a human thief going to a dungeon full of monsters, unless he goes kicking and screaming.
If the Rogue has more hit points, it's because he's going to use force to steal.
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Dimirag
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Re: Rogue - Class Supplement

Post Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:51 pm

I think that this Class should state that is used as a replacement of the Thief, as its superior in every aspects outside of leveling speed

I don't feel it more generic, just more powerful or experienced.
For a Generic Rogue I would go with a starting set of skill chosen from a list and with a percentage pool for more customization
Sorry for any misspelling or writing error, I am not a native English speaker
Drawing portfolio: https://www.instagram.com/m.serena_dimirag/
Seven
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Re: Rogue - Class Supplement

Post Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:32 pm

I don't know about generic.
I'm just saying, in my cities there are lots of thieves with low hp and they tend to steal things and run. In the countryside, there are brigands. They can scale walls and break into things and they can fight when they have numerical advantage, set ambushes, traps, that sort of things.
Conan, for example, was a "thief" with good combat abilities and no pick pockets skill.
I don't call that a "barbarian". Conan met several similar "thieves" who were from civilized countries.
In other words, I see Pick Pockets as something that requires a lot of training that is not spent on training to fight with weapons. Kinda like casting spells, hence I can rationalize the d4 hit points.

Again, that's just me.
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cailano
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Re: Rogue - Class Supplement

Post Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:59 pm

Dimirag wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:51 pm
I think that this Class should state that is used as a replacement of the Thief, as its superior in every aspects outside of leveling speed

I don't feel it more generic, just more powerful or experienced.
For a Generic Rogue I would go with a starting set of skill chosen from a list and with a percentage pool for more customization
I'd be open to the idea of changing the name, if a lot of people felt that way about it. Personally, while I like the old-school flavor of the Thief class name, I feel like Rogue is more descriptive. In a game that I run for my kids, there's a Thief NPC and they're always calling her a Thief. Her standard response is that she doesn't steal and that she's a professional treasure hunter, which my kids always think it hilarious for some reason.

She's right though! She's never stolen from anyone in the campaign.

The Rogue is absolutely meant to be just what you said, however: a better Thief. I feel like it's a class that can keep pace with the Cleric and Fighter a bit better.
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cailano
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Re: Rogue - Class Supplement

Post Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:04 pm

Seven wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:19 pm
Personally, I would drop the Picket Pocket skill altogether.
It's mostly an urban skill that I associate with the (mostly) non-combatant thief.
The halfling thief is still viable, because of his racial bonuses, but I don't see a human thief going to a dungeon full of monsters, unless he goes kicking and screaming.
If the Rogue has more hit points, it's because he's going to use force to steal.
That's an interesting idea and I could see some GMs using the Rogue that way.
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