Basic Fantasy RPG Forums

It's not really an auto-hit. The MU has to make an ability roll to successfully cast it. This means a 1st level MU has to roll 17 or higher to succeed, but if he does succeed, the bolt hits. The MU does get an INT bonus for this roll, but this is still more difficult than rolling to-hit for most things like goblins and orcs.

Here's the ability roll table:

Lvl : target number
0-1 : 17
2-3 : 16
4-5 : 15
6-7 : 14
8-9 : 13
etc.

EDIT: To finish this up, using an ability roll instead of to hit keeps the class focused on magic and intelligence, not fighting skill and strength or dexterity. It encourages going for a high INT where otherwise the MU is better off with a high DEX, STR, or CON. It's the most 'magic-userish' way I could come up with to implement this, and because intelligence ability rolls are more difficult than to hit rolls (unless the MU has an 18 INT) the affect on game balance seems minimal.

The drawback to my version is that a MU w/ no INT bonus is better off just throwing daggers for the first 5 levels, one with +1 is better off with daggers for the first 3 levels, and even an MU with +2 INT bonus is better off tossing daggers for the first level. To offset this, I give Arcane Bolt a longer range of 40' (and no penalty for the max range, of course). I also allow the bolt to hit creatures who are only vulnerable to magical weapons [though a quick glance tells me I left that out of the second revision for some reason - I'll put it back in].

OK, I see now. Not the way I would go about it though. During the course of a normal combat round, everyone makes attack rolls to hit, but then the MU uses a completely different mechanism (albeit it is a regular mechanic used elsewhere with some regularity)?

I think I would just rather use attack rolls here as well, perhaps just because it is consistent for all characters who are making an attack. No more difficult than any other character making an attack, instead of having to know or reference a completely different chart for success. Of course, this is just my opinion here.

SmootRK wrote:During the course of a normal combat round, everyone makes attack rolls to hit, but then the MU uses a completely different mechanism (albeit it is a regular mechanic used elsewhere with some regularity)?

Yeah, but if you think about it, it's even simpler than rolling to hit because you don't need to know the armor class of the target and there are no range modifiers. If the player writes the target number on the record sheet, there's not even anything to look up: 40' range, add INT bonus, d3 damage if you succeed.

That said, consistency among the different character classes is a good argument for doing things your way. The slight difference is a tradeoff I find elegant, but that's me.

I like both ideas but I do agree that the way Joe would do it would keep it consistent with how everyone else attacks. I would probably go with the attack vs AC as well except I would give the MU his INT Bonus as a modifier to his dice roll to hit the creature.

Sure, if you think of Arcane Bolt as just another kind of dagger, you should roll to hit to be consistent with the combat rules.

However, Arcane Bolt is magic, and if you make the MU roll to hit with a spell, you are being inconsistent with how magic works in BF. We don't make the MU roll to hit for Magic Missile, Fireball, or other spells cast in combat. We don't have range modifiers for spells cast in combat, and we don't take AC into account. The mechanics for magic in BF are different from those of mundane weapons.

Part of the point of using the ability roll is that Arcane Bolt is a kind of spell, and it should be different from using a mundane weapon, just like casting a Fireball is different from swinging a sword.

Anyway, everyone should do what they like for their game. At least in that we are all being consistent.

You make a good argument for using it like a skill check/ability roll.

Perhaps for your supplement, since it is a collection of alternate pick and choose options, you should place both flavors of Arcane Bolt there? One where the characters roll to hit (INT modified for 1d3, touch or 10/20/30), or via an Ability Roll for automatic hit.

I suppose if you really want to make it consistent, it ought to be a saving throw against, not a roll to succeed. Spells tend to be "roll to hit" or "save against."

As a player, I'd rather one of the other options besides "save against," but that's because I like rolling dice .

Once again I think it all comes down to how you visualize the arcane bolt. If you see it as a spell then you would want to treat it like a spell, using a save or an INT ability roll to see if you fire it off. If you see it as more of an arcane weapon (like a magic crossbow) then you would want to roll vs ac to see if it hit. Either way is cool though..

SmootRK wrote:Perhaps for your supplement, since it is a collection of alternate pick and choose options, you should place both flavors of Arcane Bolt there?

Yeah, I think I have to.

Joe the Rat wrote:I suppose if you really want to make it consistent, it ought to be a saving throw against, not a roll to succeed. Spells tend to be "roll to hit" or "save against."

I thought about that, but it makes the GM do too much work, and since I'm always the GM, I went with the lazy option.

That said, I think I'll put all three options in the next revision.

dymondy2k wrote:Once again I think it all comes down to how you visualize the arcane bolt. If you see it as a spell then you would want to treat it like a spell, using a save or an INT ability roll to see if you fire it off. If you see it as more of an arcane weapon (like a magic crossbow) then you would want to roll vs ac to see if it hit.

You're right, but when doing the supplement I kept in mind the many times I heard the complaint that changing the MU always ended up making it more like the fighter (armor, more weapons, etc.) and that seemed to annoy a lot of people. I also wanted emphasize the magic-using aspect of the class, so, while I did include a number of combat options, when it came to Arcane Bolt I decided to treat it like a spell.

That said, as I wrote above, I'll include 3 variations for this option in the next release.