Basic Fantasy RPG Forums

Hello all.

Just thought it was time to say hi. I don't remember if I did before. I'm running two camps using BFRPG at the moment. One camp is using a modified (houseruled) version while the other is using the straight off the downloads with no modifications. I'm an old school gamer that has fallen in love with the system but still likes to tweak and bend stuff.

Keep up the great work.

Dear all,

Thank you so much for your GREAT WORK ! ! ! I I tried OSRIC, LL and Dark Dungeons before and was already impressed by these works (especially by the latter), but Basic Fantasy is by far the finest piece of retro-rpg-art that I ever saw. I am really impressed by the clear and beautiful presentation of the rules and by the wise and subtle changes you made to the original rules (i.e. races, ascending AC, AB). This work is so complete even though it has not more than 160 pages. This is really brilliant! I am overwhelmed and impressed by this beauty!

Thank you so much ! ! !

Thanks for the kind words, and welcome!

It feels like you've taken the best of the old stuff and conjoined it with some of the modern sensible mechanics, while cutting out a lot of the clutter. Sure, Basic Fantasy is, well, "Basic," but that's why I think it's such a gem. The rules do what they need to do and then get the hell out of the way, allowing a story to unfold. It's simple without being simplistic. Most satisfying.

Brian from Massachusetts

I have read Brian's comment just after my first post. He has really hit the nail on the head - like you have done with this great work

Thanks again to all of you!

The Core rules for Basic Fantasy RPG(2nd Edition) are adequate, but they seem to lack major sections that could be described better for players new to the pen and paper RPG concept.

Though the creators of the Core Rules have the idea of a simple and easy to use rule set, and nearly every section has at least several paragraphs of suggestions for the Game Master, I might suggest removing such suggestions, or at least decreasing the size. As it seems, some of the ideas that are introduced to new players, such as creating a castle are more heavily focused on, compared to Saving throws.(pages: 52 to 53 are about saving throws, a major part of any game, compared to pages 149(the FULL page) to 151, are about Strongholds, a portion of the game that only higher level characters may need, but still focused on more than saving throws.)

Another revision that may be suggested, is to state in full how to roll and use a saving throw, as it says on the bottom of page 52, "Like an attack roll, a saving throw is a d20 roll, with the target number based on the character's class and level;..."
The quote above, could be improved upon, such as "Like an attack roll, a saving throw is a d20 roll, with the target number being the roll that a saving throw must be equal to or higher than, based upon by the character's class and level. An example might be a level 1 fighter is targeted by a spell, and then must roll a 17 or higher to evade the spell."

The example above, of course could be changed, but it allows the reader to completely understand the saving throw.

One more revision that might be taken into consideration is how the Thief Abilities section, page 9 is explained.
While reading the different uses of each ability, any beginning player has no idea how to roll for a successful ability. A good explanation of Thief abilities might be something like the following, “To roll for a thief ability, the player must roll the number less than or equal to the required ability.” (Since that appears to be how the game works.) And if an example might be suggested, than you should use something along the following, “If a level 1 thief wishes to Open the Lock of a door, they are required to roll a 25 or lower to successfully open the lock.”
The above statement is just a suggestion.

Another revision that might be suggested is to put the saving throw chart for character classes in the same section as character creation.

But, I also have a suggestion for the Monsters Section, the Polar Bear, page 58, seems to have lower stats than a Cave Bear, page 57.

The Polar Bear’s damage is 1d6/1d6/1d10+2d8 hug, compared to the Cave Bear’s 1d8/1d8/2d6+2d8 hug.
Realistically speaking, the Polar Bear is the largest modern Bear, some reaching a length of 9.8 ft, and a weight of 1,4433 Lb, (http://www.seaworld.org/animal-info/inf ... istics.htm)
I would change the XP value, the hit dice, and damage to fit the characteristics of the largest Carnivorous Land Mammal.

Thank you for reading these suggestions and revisions, I do like the simple rules, but they could still be improved upon in several ways.

Contra wrote:The Core rules for Basic Fantasy RPG(2nd Edition) are adequate, but they seem to lack major sections that could be described better for players new to the pen and paper RPG concept.

BFRPG has many contributors, but ultimately the decisions as to what to include or exclude are mine. I am curious what you think is missing... see below for my commentary point-by-point.

Contra wrote:Though the creators of the Core Rules have the idea of a simple and easy to use rule set, and nearly every section has at least several paragraphs of suggestions for the Game Master, I might suggest removing such suggestions, or at least decreasing the size.

Not happening. The suggestions in the rules are entirely my work, and are intended to help beginners use the rules. Removing them is not an option.

Contra wrote:As it seems, some of the ideas that are introduced to new players, such as creating a castle are more heavily focused on, compared to Saving throws.(pages: 52 to 53 are about saving throws, a major part of any game, compared to pages 149(the FULL page) to 151, are about Strongholds, a portion of the game that only higher level characters may need, but still focused on more than saving throws.)

These are true statements. I'll agree that the information presented for saving throws might be a bit skimpy; however, the Strongholds section was written almost entirely by Nick Bogan. Without his work, the game might still be lacking such rules. If this is one of the things you think should be removed, well, that's not happening. I'll not be gutting them at the suggestion of one individual.

Contra wrote:Another revision that may be suggested, is to state in full how to roll and use a saving throw, as it says on the bottom of page 52, "Like an attack roll, a saving throw is a d20 roll, with the target number based on the character's class and level;..."
The quote above, could be improved upon, such as "Like an attack roll, a saving throw is a d20 roll, with the target number being the roll that a saving throw must be equal to or higher than, based upon by the character's class and level. An example might be a level 1 fighter is targeted by a spell, and then must roll a 17 or higher to evade the spell."

First of all, let me suggest that you learn to avoid the passive voice. Don't say "Another revision that may be suggested," say "Another revision I would suggest." Passive voice is a terrible writing habit... makes you sound like you work for the government.

Your suggested alteration needs a bit of an edit. Probably it should read like this:

Like an attack roll, a saving throw is a d20 roll, with the target number being the roll that a saving throw must be equal to or higher than, based upon by the character's class and level. For example, a first level Fighter is targeted by a spell; if a saving throw is allowed by the spell, then the player must roll a 17 or higher to evade or resist it.

Contra wrote:One more revision that might be taken into consideration is how the Thief Abilities section, page 9 is explained.
While reading the different uses of each ability, any beginning player has no idea how to roll for a successful ability. A good explanation of Thief abilities might be something like the following, “To roll for a thief ability, the player must roll the number less than or equal to the required ability.” (Since that appears to be how the game works.) And if an example might be suggested, than you should use something along the following, “If a level 1 thief wishes to Open the Lock of a door, they are required to roll a 25 or lower to successfully open the lock.”
The above statement is just a suggestion.

Indeed, it's a bit awkward. I'll admit that you are not the first person to ask for more details about thief abilities; I just haven't written text that I like.

Contra wrote:Another revision that might be suggested is to put the saving throw chart for character classes in the same section as character creation.

Suggested before, and rejected. The layout order of the rules has a purpose. I do recommend that beginners use J.D. Jarvis' character sheets, as they have page numbers on them for everything needed when creating a character.

Contra wrote:But, I also have a suggestion for the Monsters Section, the Polar Bear, page 58, seems to have lower stats than a Cave Bear, page 57.

The Polar Bear’s damage is 1d6/1d6/1d10+2d8 hug, compared to the Cave Bear’s 1d8/1d8/2d6+2d8 hug.
Realistically speaking, the Polar Bear is the largest modern Bear, some reaching a length of 9.8 ft, and a weight of 1,4433 Lb, (http://www.seaworld.org/animal-info/inf ... istics.htm)
I would change the XP value, the hit dice, and damage to fit the characteristics of the largest Carnivorous Land Mammal.

The Cave Bear in the BFRPG rules is the biggest bear there is, a prehistoric monster exceeding even the modern Polar Bear in power and ferocity. The stats are as they should be to reflect that.

Contra wrote:Thank you for reading these suggestions and revisions, I do like the simple rules, but they could still be improved upon in several ways.

I have no doubt the could be improved. Everything can be, assuming that you can determine what "improved" means.

The BFRPG rules have stood the test of time, having many players, GMs, and contributors. I'd recommend, before you start remodeling the house, you live in it a while first. Get used to it. If you still find it inadequate, well then, feel free to change it to suit yourself, in your own game. But the Core Rules serve not merely your needs and desires but also the needs and desires of many others, not all of whom will necessarily agree with you as to what "improved" means.

Now, let me say welcome. Dissenting opinions are always welcome here... just be prepared to back them up.

I did want to note that I also struggled for a bit because the savings throw chart is nowhere near the character creation part of the book. Since character creation starts off with a character sheet that shows the saving throws, the assumption would be that they would be in the next few pages. I'm not asking you to move them but I want to chime in that he wasn't the only one who was wondering why they weren't there.


You've built a great set of rules and the location of the savings throw chart would probably be the only real critique I could find in the whole thing.

Urieal wrote:
here's a link to a bigger image if you have trouble with that one

I'm impressed at how friendly that chart is to low level thieves.

The AD&D(1st) Dex bonuses to some tasks seemed to give some extra benefits, but maybe it should be kept simple for Basic Fantasy (?) (Hmm 0 to 10% bonus? 3% per ability bonus? That wouldn't hurt too much as an optional house rule?).

I used to try to think of ways to help low level thieves, like rings (with expiry dates) lent by the guild modifying pickpocket etc.

In time, the thief zips up the XP level table (if they survive being banged on the head by doors, killed by mousetraps on creaky floor boards).

Still, I feel very compelled to make thieves more competant during levels 1-3, if only to keep novice players on board (and that chart helps) - along with chucking a bag of scrolls at the 1st level magic-users.

Have you looked at the Thief Options supplement?

With regards to the saving throw chart, I had expected to find it near the character descriptions. However, I do know a lot of DMs that used to make all of those rolls for the PCs and didn't necessarily want them to be able to look up the saving throws on their own to see whether they made it or not. That said, I'm in the process of modifying the source documents to add much of the supplementary material with an eye on having a master copy printed at Lulu.com and a small booklet printed for the players that contains all of the relevant information that they need, without a lot of cumbersome extras. The master book will probably be about 250 pages, but I think it will be worth having everything integrated into it at a cost of about $15, while the player books will be about $5 or $6 each.

I really like the layout and feel of the core book; it reminds me a great deal of both the Basic and Expert sets, as well as AD&D 1E. There is very little that won't be used directly or indirectly, and there were some new ideas (or at least some that I hadn't encountered) mentioned at various points in the book. I'll probably have some additional comments as we undergo conversions from Pathfinder 3.5 to BFRPG, but so far I like the idea of "Build character, pick spells and weapons, do things" rather than spend money on a bunch of books followed by spending huge amounts of time picking skills, feats, traits, spells, etc., and then having to look up a plethora of modified combat rules.

Great job so far! I've looked at a lot of other systems but BFRPG has presented the closest option for me.