Bard Supplement

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SmootRK
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Re: Bard Supplement

Post Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:47 am

Solomoriah wrote:Despite access to all weapons, my "pure" bard (non-combo) is very nearly a non-combatant/support character. This is the main reason their progression is so cheap... they don't get all that much for gaining levels.
Also, by their very nature, are reliant on other party members (this was specifically one of my goals when creating my own version). Their abilities enhance others (or hinder enemies), but they can be downright feeble mano e mano against other classes. Most of the abilities that I utilized have very little direct effect for combat (i.e. language, decipher, lore, etc), except for the songs...and those are really for other party members... so yeah, overall, sub-par to even MU for most stuff.

So my point is that giving all weapons certainly won't break any sense of balance, however, I feel like since the character concept really is non-combative overall, I am not sure it makes sense to give such access to all weapons. Fine for a Fighter-Bard (skald) or Roguish-Bard to fight decently, but not the other combos (or the single class version). I can see the bard throwing on some armor and grabbing a shield to protect himself, but I don't feel the same about access to all weapons. Two-Handed Sword wielding on an (otherwise vanilla) bard seems goofy to me, but I know others have differing opinions.
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Solomoriah
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Re: Bard Supplement

Post Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:32 am

I'm still considering a "Lore" ability. Haven't gotten there yet.

As far as weapons go, I haven't found a sane dividing line yet. Say I restrict them from two-handed weapons... what about spears?
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Dimirag
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Re: Bard Supplement

Post Mon Apr 24, 2017 1:01 pm

I like the idea of a "Lore" or similar ability related to songs and poems and such...

A way of removing 2H weapons but allowing spears is to limit them to weapons that can exclusively be used with two hands, spears, hand a half swords and the like would be allowed 1H or 2H.

Weapon restriction combination can be difficult, the bard would let clerics and magic users use any weapon if the less restrictive list is used.

Whatever weapon the Bard gets access to, its combo class will get also unless specific rules are used.
Sorry for any misspelling or writing error, I am not a native English speaker
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Solomoriah
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Re: Bard Supplement

Post Mon Apr 24, 2017 5:51 pm

No, my bard doesn't allow Clerics to bypass their normal weapon limits, just Magic-Users. That was intentional.
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Solomoriah
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Re: Bard Supplement

Post Mon May 22, 2017 9:02 am

You ever have one of those days when you wake up on the weird side of the bed?

River, Human Female Bard/Cleric, bass guitar
Stone, Human Male Bard/Fighter, drums
Blaze, Human Male Bard/Magic-User, guitar
Breeze, Human Female Bard/Thief, playing a variety of instruments: guitar, mandolin, tambourine, flute, etc.

There you have it... combo-classed Adventurer/Rock Musicians.

:D

In my head, River sounds a little like Grace Slick, while Breeze has a lighter, higher voice; Blaze is kind of McCartney-like, and Stone has a deep, growly voice. Each sings lead on his or her preferred bard song, while the others play backup. (In the pub, of course... in combat, they take turns playing when they aren't fighting for whatever reason.)
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SmootRK
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Re: Bard Supplement

Post Mon May 22, 2017 11:30 am

Themed adventuring parties can be fun. I once had a group make up characters that were circus performers, and for this I completely relaxed any sense of norms. We had:
Halfling Strongman/Wildman (barbarian)
Drow Mime (bard)
Human Knife Thrower (Fighter/Thief)
Blind Fortune Teller (Cleric, I think, memory being sketchy now)
Clockwork Man (MU warforged race from ebberon with modifications)

It made for a fun group. So yes, a bardic troupe with different specialties would make for a fun set of adventures.
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mTeasdale
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Re: Bard Supplement

Post Fri May 26, 2017 8:27 pm

SmootRK wrote:Themed adventuring parties can be fun. I once had a group make up characters that were circus performers, and for this I completely relaxed any sense of norms. We had:
Halfling Strongman/Wildman (barbarian)
Drow Mime (bard)
Human Knife Thrower (Fighter/Thief)
Blind Fortune Teller (Cleric, I think, memory being sketchy now)
Clockwork Man (MU warforged race from ebberon with modifications)

It made for a fun group. So yes, a bardic troupe with different specialties would make for a fun set of adventures.
My players did that once too. And everytime they met a new PC, it was someone whi they met at the circus. It was pretty funny.
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Solomoriah
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Re: Bard Supplement

Post Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:52 pm

Doing some hard thinking about this class. In my playtest group, I've had two players actually play a Bard as a single-class character, which is not how I expected it to be used. The resulting characters are very nearly useless when operating in backup roles, and with d4 hit dice they are too fragile to act as backup fighters (as clerics are often used).

I'm probably going to go ahead and bump them to d6 hit dice. I don't think that's a balance issue. But my other problem is how weak their "powers" are, compared to spellcasters for example. A cleric is objectively better than a bard at any level higher than 1st (we could argue about 1st level characters, but once the cleric gets a spell it's game over).

The problem, as I see it, is that they have "linear" advancement similar to Fighters and Thieves... their power scales more or less directly to their level. Clerics and Magic-Users have "quadratic" advancement, where their power level starts lower and scales up more quickly as they climb the levels.

My first thought is, maybe we should give the Bard a proficiency boost every level. Looking at this from a min/max standpoint, if the player chooses to bump the same song every level (up to the effective maximum of 5), this would mean a 5th level Bard who only ever used the Battle Song could give a +5 AB to all allies in range.

... not sure about that. But thinking about it, I realize that the Bard IS quadratic IF the party is large enough. That is, his or her power scales with level AND with the number of allies in range.

Hmm.

Opinions?
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Solomoriah
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Re: Bard Supplement

Post Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:58 pm

Ack. Re-read the class. The limit is fixed, which fact I was not paying attention to. Stupid of me.

Still considering options, though.
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Dimirag
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Re: Bard Supplement

Post Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:14 pm

Here are some ideas:
d6 fot hit dice
thief/cleric AB
fixed bonus for all known songs

The following idea is a major change:
-Songs have a level, reflected by the overall bonus it has (its complexity) on different aspects (attack, damage, saving throws, turning undead chance and quantity, etc)
-Based on level each song has a g.p. cost (the cost of the music sheet) to purchase
-The Bard's level limits the music level
-The Bard can create a song at each new level, free of cost
-Learning a purchased (or found) song requires some kind of roll
--Alternatively, the Bard can learn as many songs as he is allowed by his level
-Playing a song from a sheet requires a roll
Sorry for any misspelling or writing error, I am not a native English speaker
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