Basic Fantasy RPG Forums

Dimirag wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 5:18 pm

I didn't know that. Can you tell me what book Jason was looking at?

Quote from Crazycrypt/Jason "My version was based off of the book series "The Ranger's Apprentice" by John Flanagan"

Well shoot. Don't remember seeing that before.

Dimirag wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 5:18 pm

I disagree here. The Thief has just as strong a reason to be a good listener (not getting caught and possibly incarcerated or executed is a pretty strong reason).

I agree with you, but I thought Scouts could benefit from some improvement in some skills, and Listening felt like the core skill to improve.

Okay, I'll grant that a boost somewhere seems reasonable. Just not sure Listen is the best choice.

Dimirag wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 5:18 pm

Interesting. How would that work?

The GM must make a successful saving hrow for characters to not become lost in trackless places.
Maybe if the Scout is leading the party the roll is with a bonus, and if the Scout is alone the bonus may be higher.
Such bonus may be a flat one or a level based one.

I'll consider it.

Dimirag wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 5:18 pmReviewing Scouts R5: I like it...
Using backstab at a delayed but improved effect its a good call.
Canceling the distance penalty is a nice way of giving a conditional bonus.
I like the way you resolved the wilderness movement.

Okay then... we're still more or less on the same page.

Anyone else want to weigh in here?

Not sure about TWC but not carrying a shield makes some sort of sense.
Could have some ability to spot outdoor traps, like pits and snares.
Generally, more likely to surprise/less likely to be surprised when outdoors is good.
The ability to take out sentries is hard to translate in game terms.
That's where the backstab or lethal bow shots presumably comes from.

Here's my nickels worth of free advice: The Scout is redundant. I'm not saying that's necessarily a bad thing. But to me I would rather just play a Ranger. I would personally allow Ranger characters an option to either be a Bow expert or Two weapon combat expert.

Seven, I'm liking your comments, especially this one:

Seven wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:24 amCould have some ability to spot outdoor traps, like pits and snares.

SPOTTING traps is different (better) than just detecting them on a search. But it shouldn't be too easy, and the mechanic has to be quick since the GM is expected to roll it (obviously).

Now to puzzle out how...

cbarchuk wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:33 amHere's my nickels worth of free advice: The Scout is redundant. I'm not saying that's necessarily a bad thing. But to me I would rather just play a Ranger.

A Ranger has a different purpose, being the "fighter of the woods" rather than the "thief of the woods." Just because you'd rather play a Ranger doesn't mean that's true of everyone... the guy I have playtesting the Scout in my online game really wanted to play this kind of character. He could have chosen Ranger but that wasn't what he wanted.

Spot Traps, Snares,
Not necessarily including the remove portion, though that part could get a separate ability that favors outdoors, hunting-traps, etc. and lesser ability to disable dungeon sort of traps.

The Spot Traps ability could be worded loosely so that it includes various (mainly outdoors) hazards including ambushes, likely kill zones, hiden enemy lookout spots (or likely sniper spots), etc.

All very useful military recon sorts of uses.

And yes, this would be behind the screen GM rolls that dont necessarily even need player input so as to not give away hints of nearby hazards.

A Ranger has a different purpose, being the "fighter of the woods" rather than the "thief of the woods." Just because you'd rather play a Ranger doesn't mean that's true of everyone... the guy I have playtesting the Scout in my online game really wanted to play this kind of character. He could have chosen Ranger but that wasn't what he wanted.

You can call the class whatever you want. But mechanically they seem redundant is all I'm saying. It's as if the Scout is a subclass of a subclass. Again that's fine. But these narrow distinctions can just as easily be role played in my view. That being said I like the Scout and it seems to me like a more attractive option than the Ranger itself. So for my own game I may just drop the Ranger and keep the Scout instead for that particular archetype. And if someone wants to be more of a straight up bow expert then they can simply roll a fighter and specialize in the Longbow.

With no dex bonus using a plain Longbow

Level 9 Ranger 264,000 xp
+8 to hit with 2 attacks
+3 damage against chosen enemy
Stealth & Tracking
HD of d8

Level 9 Fighter w/Bow Specialization Rank 3 240,000 xp
+8 to hit with 1 attack (Will get 2 attacks at level 10)
+1 bonus damage
HD of d8

Level 9 Scout 180,000 xp
+6 to hit
Double Damage when target is unaware
Most thief skills & tracking
No penalty for long range attacks
Higher chance to surprise when operating alone
Can move faster through wilderness terrain
HD of d6
XP progression of a Cleric

Also, if a scout is a "thief in the woods", why the bow stuff? Particularly the long bow. The bow is for a "sniper in the woods", not a "thief in the woods". I have no problem with the idea of them using a short bow, but I don' get the bow specialization and don't see the long bow fitting.

The sneaking, stalking, backstab, trap finding, tracking and various thief abilities all work great. But the whole bow thing is kinda weird.

Again, I am probably looking at this wrong.

The class already has a surprise benefit, it could be expanded to work both for surprising others and to avoid surprise

Detect snares can be work either by a % bonus on find traps rolls
Or give it a 1 in 6 chances rolled by the GM, basically the same chances as for others looking for traps

As for the bow thing, it kinda makes more sense with shortbows and small throwing weapons (daggers, darts, stars), weapons more "movement and concealment" friendly

The sneaking, stalking, backstab, trap finding, tracking and various thief abilities all work great. But the whole bow thing is kinda weird.

Smells like an Assassin or Ninja to me

As for the bow thing, it kinda makes more sense with shortbows and small throwing weapons (daggers, darts, stars), weapons more "movement and concealment" friendly

Again sounds like a Ninja

cbarchuk wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:08 am Again sounds like a Ninja

Actually, if you make this a ninja class (and by that I mean a cinematic ninja, not a realistic one), I'm all on board. (Keep the name Scout, though.)

But that would kill the wilderness thing and let their abilities apply anywhere. Again, that's not to say they can't operate in the wilderness. It simply means their abilities apply anywhere, wilderness or not.

Ninja go!